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Post by valhalla on Jul 6, 2020 23:08:19 GMT 1
Well, Remmington mentioned it the other day, that I love my Autel equipment. He is right, I do, and I still think it's the best compromise on value vs. features.
Trouble is, it's a) out of date on its software, becuase I've struggled to get a straight answer from the usual Autel channels for updating the machine to 2020-spec, but also it's b) Chinese.
The latter point is why it is such good value and does punch above its weight, but I am having a serious think about whether I want to support the PRC any more, and whilst the money is still in my pocket, now is the better time to evaluate what is out there, and spend wisely this Summer.
The alternatives are not great, as the GScan is also Chinese (and based on similar software to the Autel) and that is the main challenger to what I already have.
I have looked at the Bosch KTS system/s in the past, but by the time you have added all the bits together to make a working system, I wonder if there's anything left for me to live on; almost like you need to work your guts out to give some Germans a good life by the sea!! To be frank, if the KTS covered the mainstream 100%, then money becomes secondary to being able to deliver a decent service to this part of the Isle, but only if it covers the mainstream....
Any suggestions? How are people finding their scantools at the moment?
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Post by studabear on Jul 6, 2020 23:17:34 GMT 1
We have the KTS its useless on Citroen vans for some reason. Most other areas it seems alright but that said we probably don't use a lot of its capabilities.
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Post by trickydicky on Jul 7, 2020 1:06:01 GMT 1
www.diagnosticconnections.co.uk/These guys regularly do special offers for members of the simply diagnostics network Autocom (Swedish) always gets good reviews I guess you would need to trial a few platforms and see what works best for your needs
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Post by valhalla on Jul 7, 2020 22:40:27 GMT 1
Coincidentally last night, I was trying to get some straight answers from the Autocom website for coverage and features on the Cars software.
I have to say, if I wasn't so enamoured of Autocom already, I would have given up! It really does seem to be like getting blood from a stone, just trying to find-out what a tool is capable of, and the Autocom site makes it just that much harder. It all comes down to contacting one of the diagnostic tool outlets, by which time they have got you!! I'm a sucker for nver saying "no" once the sales-pitch gets going......
I have an old knock-off of the Autocom system, and this has been the best advertisement of all for what the new system might be able to do. I use it for the older Volvos, as much as anything else, and it impresses me how solid the interface equipment all feels, and how stable it is (for a knock-off), hence the likelihood is that the latest and up-to-date system will be impressive. What it doesn't do very well is all the detail little things that the Autel can do; things like resetting configurations in odd controllers away from powertrain, or re-programming keys. I do suspect, however, that the pukka system can do it all now.
I will do some talking with some of the outlets, and see what they offer. Sadly, Gendan (whom I would use again in a heartbeat) don't do much outside of the Chinese toolsets, as they all come from the same sources; Foxcom and Autel are one and the same, and I believe the Gscan is in the same mould.
Long gone are the days when you could search down a list of supported models and modules, then look at a hypothetical series of tasks that you know your current tools already cope-with.
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Post by voicey on Jul 8, 2020 8:52:52 GMT 1
Aside from the factory kit I have, my go-to tool is the Texa (which is an Italian company). If you register on their website you can see exactly what vehicles and modules are covered. www.texa.co.uk/diagnostic-coverage
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Post by trickydicky on Jul 8, 2020 14:59:46 GMT 1
Coincidentally last night, I was trying to get some straight answers from the Autocom website for coverage and features on the Cars software. I have to say, if I wasn't so enamoured of Autocom already, I would have given up! It really does seem to be like getting blood from a stone, just trying to find-out what a tool is capable of, and the Autocom site makes it just that much harder. It all comes down to contacting one of the diagnostic tool outlets, by which time they have got you!! I'm a sucker for nver saying "no" once the sales-pitch gets going...... I have an old knock-off of the Autocom system, and this has been the best advertisement of all for what the new system might be able to do. I use it for the older Volvos, as much as anything else, and it impresses me how solid the interface equipment all feels, and how stable it is (for a knock-off), hence the likelihood is that the latest and up-to-date system will be impressive. What it doesn't do very well is all the detail little things that the Autel can do; things like resetting configurations in odd controllers away from powertrain, or re-programming keys. I do suspect, however, that the pukka system can do it all now. I will do some talking with some of the outlets, and see what they offer. Sadly, Gendan (whom I would use again in a heartbeat) don't do much outside of the Chinese toolsets, as they all come from the same sources; Foxcom and Autel are one and the same, and I believe the Gscan is in the same mould. Long gone are the days when you could search down a list of supported models and modules, then look at a hypothetical series of tasks that you know your current tools already cope-with.
I believe diagnostic-connections are the main guys in the UK for Autocom Give them a call and ask for a demo unit
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Post by valhalla on Jul 8, 2020 23:34:46 GMT 1
I believe diagnostic-connections are the main guys in the UK for Autocom Give them a call and ask for a demo unit I tried to sign-up with them last night for some contacts, but it doesn't seem to have come through yet. They do a straight "shop" purchase option, and the current CDP+ with Cars is also with a DoiP lead/adapter thrown-n, all for a not-unreasonable £2k. I think this is for 2years, so £1k/year outlay, which is roughly what I seem to spend each year.
I need to contact Hella Guttmann again - I'm on their list - and see what they are offering at the moment. Problem is, I have signed-up for my usual Autodata subs this year, so the HG linked assistance is not such an attractive thing as it would have been. I noticed Diagnose Dan using the Hella-supplied wiring information a while back, and it did seem very clear and concise - compared with some sources that shall remain nameless.....
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Post by Rhubarb on Jul 9, 2020 12:42:28 GMT 1
Have you thought about Launch ? Still got my X431, miles out of date mind now..Can still update it if I needed too.. The only vehicle it let me down on was a Chrysler PT Cruiser, which was no loss cos the owner was a tosspot
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Post by valhalla on Jul 9, 2020 23:40:59 GMT 1
Yes, I have some tools for making the tossers go away as well!
The Launch seems to be a common popular tool, but I'm sure it has its origins in China? Hence it benefits from the software updates and improvements that the Autel and GScan have, and is similar behind the screen, albeit that its capabilites seem slightly down on the Autel?
I may investigate further.....no point being hasty!!!
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Post by Rhubarb on Jul 10, 2020 1:48:25 GMT 1
Yes, I have some tools for making the tossers go away as well! The Launch seems to be a common popular tool, but I'm sure it has its origins in China? Hence it benefits from the software updates and improvements that the Autel and GScan have, and is similar behind the screen, albeit that its capabilites seem slightly down on the Autel? I may investigate further.....no point being hasty!!!
Yes the Launch is 100% Chinese I'm afraid It's never given me any bother though..You update it via there website, very easy to do.. It did everything I asked of it..
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,971
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Post by remmington on Jul 10, 2020 10:41:44 GMT 1
I been giving some thought to what Valhalla said about buying things from the PRC (China). I too am having the same feelings - trying to avoid - using my hard earned money to inflate a super power (I don't sort of agree with). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mods: Delete if too political!
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Post by Joepublic on Jul 10, 2020 12:23:27 GMT 1
I been giving some thought to what Valhalla said about buying things from the PRC (China). I too am having the same feelings - trying to avoid - using my money to inflate a super power (I don't sort of agree with). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mods: Delete if too political! Ditto, the whole world is suffering due to their stupidity with covid 19 - their wet markets continue. It's difficult not to buy PRC products, but I now draw the line at direct purchases from there - at least if its UK bought someone here is benefitting a little?
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Post by trickydicky on Jul 10, 2020 14:50:34 GMT 1
I feel the same way about the EU/USA sometimes, they are all as crooked as a nine bob note!!!
However, I take the view that if some clever Chinese engineer/company can develop the best allround tool
I then dont think its fair to punish Autel for something that happened 75 years ago thats out of their control or how the country is run
I do refuse to buy clothing/shoes made in sweatshops
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Post by valhalla on Jul 10, 2020 21:49:51 GMT 1
However, I take the view that if some clever Chinese engineer/company can develop the best allround tool I then dont think its fair to punish Autel for something that happened 75 years ago thats out of their control or how the country is run One of the problems that I witnessed first-hand, when I did a stint of work in China back in 2007, is the insatiable thirst for knowledge, and the sheer determination and drive of the people. I have absolutely no bones to pick with the people over there; they, like every nation's people, are rarely the problem.
But, and it's a big but, they work (or live under) and oppressive regime. They are left in no doubt, whatsoever, from the top of each company, that their worth (or, indeed, their lives) is about as big/long as their ability to seize the next opportunity and exploit it. I think exploitation is what I most care-about with China; the PRC is the benchmark for this. When I was out in China, I had to guard the very expensive, and very Western, tools I was using, very, very closely. At the end of my trip, I was left in no doubt that it was expected of me to leave behind those tools, and things would be much smoother for myself and my colleague at the time if I left those somewhere where they could be "found". It is zero exageration to say, I slept with those tools under my pillow the whole trip, and I refused to let any Chinese nationals anywhere near them - given I understood what those tools represented. They were a) development tools for detailed emulation and access to the workings of Siemens ECU's, but could be turned to any ECU controller, they were also the result of years of development by Engineers in Germany, to be safe, effective, and to allow people like me to do their job.
Then there was another problem; my colleague and I were told not to go near the Uighur people, even though we lived amongst them for 5days or so. When we reciprocated Uighur hospitality in the back and beyond of Western China, they were the loveliest and kindest people you could wish to meet - like a good proportion of the world. Sadly, our Chinese hosts were not so favourably disposed towards the Uighurs, and there was an almight "diplomatic exercise" to re-educate the two of us in the error of our ways, as well as a lot of embarrassment from the Hans that we should even have thought of talking to these people whilst operating in that region.
So you see, I have an issue with the way things have developed recently, and seeing the way the wind is blowing right now, I have some concerns. It has always annoyed me how damn good these Chinese tools are, but not all of it is blood, sweat, and tears. Not in the least. Most of it is that "thirst for knowledge", which in British parlance translates as "Spying for the Motherland" or "Industrial Espionage", or even just plain old "Not giving two hoots about international patents". It is just well-developed, reverse-engineered, expertly packaged, minimal overhead, theft. I have profited from this approach so-far, and I don't feel too happy about it, but the money is spent, and that is the end of that. What I can do about it is to not make the same mistakes again, which means finding a deserving team of developers, in a democratic country (Taiwan or Korea would be fine), and paying them a fair wage for a fair talent.
Autel. like every company in China, has a PRC representative (at least one) on its board - they have no choice, that's the rules. It ensures that they toe the line, and always operate in the best interests of China, or more specifically, The Party. Like every other company in China, they are honourable as far as they are allowed to be-so.......
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,971
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Post by remmington on Jul 10, 2020 22:00:51 GMT 1
However, I take the view that if some clever Chinese engineer/company can develop the best allround tool I then dont think its fair to punish Autel for something that happened 75 years ago thats out of their control or how the country is run One of the problems that I witnessed first-hand, when I did a stint of work in China back in 2007, is the insatiable thirst for knowledge, and the sheer determination and drive of the people. I have absolutely no bones to pick with the people over there; they, like every nation's people, are rarely the problem. But, and it's a big but, they work (or live under) and oppressive regime. They are left in no doubt, whatsoever, from the top of each company, that their worth (or, indeed, their lives) is about as big/long as their ability to seize the next opportunity and exploit it. I think exploitation is what I most care-about with China; the PRC is the benchmark for this. When I was out in China, I had to guard the very expensive, and very Western, tools I was using, very, very closely. At the end of my trip, I was left in no doubt that it was expected of me to leave behind those tools, and things would be much smoother for myself and my colleague at the time if I left those somewhere where they could be "found". It is zero exageration to say, I slept with those tools under my pillow the whole trip, and I refused to let any Chinese nationals anywhere near them - given I understood what those tools represented. They were a) development tools for detailed emulation and access to the workings of Siemens ECU's, but could be turned to any ECU controller, they were also the result of years of development by Engineers in Germany, to be safe, effective, and to allow people like me to do their job. Then there was another problem; my colleague and I were told not to go near the Uighur people, even though we lived amongst them for 5days or so. When we reciprocated Uighur hospitality in the back and beyond of Western China, they were the loveliest and kindest people you could wish to meet - like a good proportion of the world. Sadly, our Chinese hosts were not so favourably disposed towards the Uighurs, and there was an almight "diplomatic exercise" to re-educate the two of us in the error of our ways, as well as a lot of embarrassment from the Hans that we should even have thought of talking to these people whilst operating in that region. So you see, I have an issue with the way things have developed recently, and seeing the way the wind is blowing right now, I have some concerns. It has always annoyed me how damn good these Chinese tools are, but not all of it is blood, sweat, and tears. Not in the least. Most of it is that "thirst for knowledge", which in British parlance translates as "Spying for the Motherland" or "Industrial Espionage", or even just plain old "Not giving two hoots about international patents". It is just well-developed, reverse-engineered, expertly packaged, minimal overhead, theft. I have profited from this approach so-far, and I don't feel too happy about it, but the money is spent, and that is the end of that. What I can do about it is to not make the same mistakes again, which means finding a deserving team of developers, in a democratic country (Taiwan or Korea would be fine), and paying them a fair wage for a fair talent. Autel. like every company in China, has a PRC representative (at least one) on its board - they have no choice, that's the rules. It ensures that they toe the line, and always operate in the best interests of China, or more specifically, The Party. Like every other company in China, they are honourable as far as they are allowed to be-so.......
Interesting input... WE moan about things in the UK - but we really don't have it so bad here... Do we?
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