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Post by givusaclue on Nov 14, 2023 19:39:02 GMT 1
can't remember what the minimum firing pressure is for that engine/management system combination, psa 1.6d's need more like 320ish bar before they'll fire from memory
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Post by OldGit on Nov 14, 2023 20:15:59 GMT 1
It's relatively low - 230-250bar from memory
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,971
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Post by remmington on Nov 14, 2023 20:42:18 GMT 1
I not seen any of these without return pipes myself. I have broken loads of these sprinter plastic return pipes taking them off thou.
Plus seen loads melted with the "black death"...The leak-off pipes are meant to be changed along with the copper seats and hold down bolts every time the injectors are removed. Try selling anything more than the copper seals (heat shields) to my bargin basement - van owning - 300.000mile Sprinter owning customers. Welcome to the very bottom of the vehicle repair trade mate! (My world...)
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Post by OldGit on Nov 15, 2023 16:31:57 GMT 1
Injectors fitted & coded first thing, fired up nice & smooth, like nothing had happened. Cost him £1059 in total, plus the chain, gaskets, tensioner etc. from the original job. That'll take some Saturday overtime to claw back!
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Post by givusaclue on Nov 15, 2023 18:42:43 GMT 1
at least it's running, the reason for failing is a bit baffling though, not sure you've got the full story
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Post by OldGit on Nov 15, 2023 19:28:57 GMT 1
Yer, I've got the full story, I was there when it happened - or rather didn't happen.The car belongs to the other Diag. Tech (who also did the work). which is why the parts were so cheap...
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Post by Karl on Nov 15, 2023 21:56:45 GMT 1
Had something a bit similar last year Sprinter with new injectors running terrible or knocking its whot it’s off
Can’t quite remember
Just ended up needing a relearn
Sorry can’t remember the exact wording
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Post by valhalla on Nov 15, 2023 22:55:22 GMT 1
This is amazing - and terrifying. I cannot understand what has happened here, except that someone in MB has made one almighty c-up. This must have shown-up during development, and some lazy eigit has brushed it off.
It might come as a painful truth to the anti-LR brigade, but whatever the shortcomings of the rest of the vehicles, the diesels would never do this. Ever.
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Post by OldGit on Nov 15, 2023 23:14:13 GMT 1
M-B is the only manufacturer that seems to suffer this, there was apparently a massive recall to change piezo injectors in OM651 engined Sprinter vans to solenoid versions, in part, because of issues when fuelling was 'disrupted', there are also lots of second-hand mentions of similar events - but no first-hand post mortems. The injectors are manufactured by Delphi, as is the ECM in most cases although there are some Bosch variants used on this engine. I've worked for various manufacturers and never experienced this before - the nearest to it was at Audi where the injectors were often failing and bringing down the rail pressure enough to cause a non-start. I did once have a Siemens injector fail open and cut a hole in a piston... I've worked with diesel engines all the way back to mechanical injectors with sequential rotary pumps (and even some Perkins mechanical timed systems used on old plant engines) and Jetronic petrol systems, at no time in their natural (and un-natural) evolutions have I come across this before, without some measurable or detectable cause. As Valhalla says, someone at M-B has left something in there that is fine for the 99th percentile, clearly 'something' happened to trigger the death of four fuel injectors by pushing beyond the safe limits. Not knowing what is worse than knowing where someone fsked up....
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Post by givusaclue on Nov 15, 2023 23:49:16 GMT 1
There was a recall for injector & ecu replacements on some cars a few years ago, my mate had an e class 250 about 2012 vintage I think which had it done, never knew why though
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Post by OldGit on Nov 16, 2023 0:03:27 GMT 1
Probably the same as above - before my time at Merc. though. Most, but not all OM651 engines have solenoid injectors, I don't know what the criteria is but the vehicle in question didn't have it or need it - we checked on EVA.
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,971
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Post by remmington on Nov 16, 2023 7:24:27 GMT 1
Change a diesel fitler on a normal service - crank the injectors dry - they fail - the whole set! Argh...
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Post by Noberator on Nov 16, 2023 12:22:18 GMT 1
Injectors fitted & coded first thing, fired up nice & smooth, like nothing had happened. Cost him £1059 in total, plus the chain, gaskets, tensioner etc. from the original job. That'll take some Saturday overtime to claw back! The cost is acceptable IMO. Imagine the cost if he was a retail Customer wouldn't be much if any change out of a couple of grand as he's got discount on the parts you where saying.
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Post by Joepublic on Nov 16, 2023 13:24:55 GMT 1
As remmington says, if the vehicle went in running for a routine service, changed the fuel filter and this was the result, how would you explain that to your customer?
Who would pay the parts bill?
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Post by Noberator on Nov 16, 2023 14:58:42 GMT 1
As remmington says, if the vehicle went in running for a routine service, changed the fuel filter and this was the result, how would you explain that to your customer? Who would pay the parts bill? In the particular case this isn't what happened is it. In your example would any garage own up to what could happen in the event it went t*ts up in remmingtons experience?
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