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Post by lindabop on Jan 29, 2015 10:36:17 GMT 1
Hey thanks Wheelnut. Your spot on with the school run, 10 miles 4 times a day and half of that is single track road, so slow going. It get a 25 mile run most weeks but that's country roads so again slow going, does the speed make a difference??
General I do buy a car about 2-3 years and get rid at 6 years. Thinking the next one maybe a petrol, the last two diesels I've had have needed egr valves before 6 years old, only a matter of time before this car needs one!
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oli
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Post by oli on Jan 29, 2015 14:59:35 GMT 1
What an interesting thread and great to see genuine thoughtful views without any sarcasm or anyone being patronised - also great to see a new member who's clearly listening to what's said and hasn't just come along with an agenda.
My views - You've been fairly unlucky with that clutch - it looks like something has given up the ghost and broken, rather than worn out. I suspect it had nothing to do with the way you drive. A lot of car ownership costs are down to luck. You've been unlucky with this, but look on the bright side, you may be lucky with another component and you might well have had to replace the clutch at some point anyway. I have to think like that as I run old land rovers which a fairly bad reputation for reliability and I'd cry if I didn't.
I think genuine clutch wear for most people (leaving aside the truly awful drivers) is related to the type of driving you do, rather than style. On a motorway you might not touch the clutch in forty miles yet in town, use it forty times in a single mile. Multiply that by years of ownership and you can see how a clutch can last 150k miles or 15k. I'm not saying it makes no difference, but you could drive like an angel and with the type of driving you have to do on country roads, it'll always wear faster.
Petrol vs diesel I like diesels, partly the relaxed driving style of them, partly for practical reasons - petrol 4x4s tend to be very thirsty - and partly completely irrationally - the flammability of petrol makes me nervous and I like the clatter and whistle of a turbo diesel (feel free to mock me!)
Modern Diesel engines are a bit of a time bomb though. There is so much to go wrong and when it does, it's expensive. If it's under warranty, that's fine, but if not...
Petrol may make more sense unless you do really high miles, but most people don't look past the miles per gallon figure.
Oli
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Post by Joepublic on Jan 29, 2015 16:14:41 GMT 1
Hey thanks Wheelnut. Your spot on with the school run, 10 miles 4 times a day and half of that is single track road, so slow going. It get a 25 mile run most weeks but that's country roads so again slow going, does the speed make a difference?? General I do buy a car about 2-3 years and get rid at 6 years. Thinking the next one maybe a petrol, the last two diesels I've had have needed egr valves before 6 years old, only a matter of time before this car needs one! Modern cars out of warranty are like a handgrenade with the pin out. If you're the second owner of the car how do you know how the previous owner treated it?
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Post by lindabop on Jan 29, 2015 17:06:40 GMT 1
What an interesting thread and great to see genuine thoughtful views without any sarcasm or anyone being patronised - also great to see a new member who's clearly listening to what's said and hasn't just come along with an agenda. My views - You've been fairly unlucky with that clutch - it looks like something has given up the ghost and broken, rather than worn out. I suspect it had nothing to do with the way you drive. A lot of car ownership costs are down to luck. You've been unlucky with this, but look on the bright side, you may be lucky with another component and you might well have had to replace the clutch at some point anyway. I have to think like that as I run old land rovers which a fairly bad reputation for reliability and I'd cry if I didn't. I think genuine clutch wear for most people (leaving aside the truly awful drivers) is related to the type of driving you do, rather than style. On a motorway you might not touch the clutch in forty miles yet in town, use it forty times in a single mile. Multiply that by years of ownership and you can see how a clutch can last 150k miles or 15k. I'm not saying it makes no difference, but you could drive like an angel and with the type of driving you have to do on country roads, it'll always wear faster. Petrol vs diesel I like diesels, partly the relaxed driving style of them, partly for practical reasons - petrol 4x4s tend to be very thirsty - and partly completely irrationally - the flammability of petrol makes me nervous and I like the clatter and whistle of a turbo diesel (feel free to mock me!) Modern Diesel engines are a bit of a time bomb though. There is so much to go wrong and when it does, it's expensive. If it's under warranty, that's fine, but if not... Petrol may make more sense unless you do really high miles, but most people don't look past the miles per gallon figure. Oli Thanks for great reply. You guys are all so calm about things going wrong, you just fix it and move, I'm still fuming at my clutch and it happened weeks ago! Maybe I should work on that! did you really have to mention the flammability of a petrol car! I would never have thought of that but now it's in my head it'll always be lurking at the back of my mind! I've alway only looked at the mpg, but thinking about what someone else said on here about not getting the economy benefits of a diesel by only doing short runs, I really should sit down and work the costs. Because generally I only do the 10 mile school trip 4 times a day and today the car was averaging 44mpg but on longer runs it does 60mpg.
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rpm
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Post by rpm on Jan 29, 2015 18:00:06 GMT 1
Its good that you have read what has been put down, not just read what you wanted. Cars do go wrong, various reasons, some hurt !
Personaly i avoid diesels and advise most people not to buy them, for reasons that have been mentioned, and some that will take too long to explain. But they are not the reliable economical town plodders that they used to be, but are probably only best suited to motorway drivers.
As for flammability of petrol, dont worry about it. I cant remember the last fire that was caused by petrol ! A little known fact, but the thing that causes most fires in a car accident is the brake fluid spilling onto hot engine/manifld/exhaust etc. And that doesnt happen very often.
All cars use brake fluid, so the fuel choice is irrelevant in that fact.
If fire fear is an issue, carry a fire extinguisher that can be reached from the driver seat. Its primary use is to allow yu added time to exit the vehicle, not put out an established fire.
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Post by lindabop on Jan 29, 2015 18:21:28 GMT 1
Thanks, I have a genuine interest in all this and it actually frustrates me when something goes wrong and I don't have the knowledge to understand why! But you guys have been great, very helpful. I'm really surprised at the opinions on modern diesels! It's definitely given me something to think about!
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Post by wheelnut on Jan 29, 2015 21:08:12 GMT 1
... It get a 25 mile run most weeks but that's country roads so again slow going, does the speed make a difference?? It's the speed of the engine that counts, not the speed of the car. It needs to be kept at 2,000 RPM minimum to regenerate the DPF. That may not be easy in a diesel because they are highly geared, for instance with a 6 speed gearbox 2000 RPM might correspond to 70 MPH. It is generally agreed so far in this thread that modern diesels are complicated and more suitable for long journeys. However you should not panic and get rid of the car too soon. In fact, the way car design is going, soon there may not be an advantage with the petrol engine. The trend is to design smaller engines with higher outputs and this is achieved by the use of technologies like direct fuel injection and turbo charging. These are the same technologies that make the modern diesel complicated! A relevant example in your case might be the current Golf which is now available with a 1.2 petrol engine that produces 105 bhp. That is the same output as their 1.6 petrol engine some years back. PS: If you are getting 45MPG with your present driving, you will probably get about 35MPG from a petrol car of similar size and weight in the same conditions.
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Post by lindabop on Jan 29, 2015 21:39:17 GMT 1
Brilliant thank you,I'll be that busy watching the rev counter tmoro I'll probably land in the ditch! I can say though that it doesn't run very far at 70 mph and certainly not on a weekly basis! Going by a quick calculation on fuel prices it would cost an extra 3p a mile to run a petrol car,going on your theory of 35mpg And assuming ive worked it out right!!
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Post by Rhubarb on Jan 29, 2015 22:41:08 GMT 1
Brilliant thank you,I'll be that busy watching the rev counter tmoro I'll probably land in the ditch! I can say though that it doesn't run very far at 70 mph and certainly not on a weekly basis! Going by a quick calculation on fuel prices it would cost an extra 3p a mile to run a petrol car,going on your theory of 35mpg And assuming ive worked it out right!! Re-check your maths, petrol at the moment is 1.04 per litre, derv is 112 per litre.. 1 litre x 4.5 equals a gallon....
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Post by lindabop on Jan 29, 2015 23:03:14 GMT 1
Even better thats only an extra 2p per mile for petrol! I just goggled fuel prices cos I had no idea what they were!
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oli
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Posts: 1,065
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Post by oli on Jan 29, 2015 23:17:13 GMT 1
With regard to flammability of petrol, I'd not lose sleep over it. I was thinking more about working on them and particularly welding them, rather than driving them. Fires in cars after accidents are actually very rare with modern fuel tanks that don't split and all petrol cars have automatic fuel cutoff valves.
Oli
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Post by Noberator on Jan 29, 2015 23:24:39 GMT 1
Even better thats only an extra 2p per mile for petrol! I just goggled fuel prices cos I had no idea what they were! lindabop if I'm not being nosey how many miles a year do you do on average. Shouldn't take me long to work out fuel costs per year for petrol based on your 35 your MPG and your 45 MPG for diesel and the price differential. By the way diesel vehicles a dearer to buy than the petrol equivalent whether it be new or second hand.
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Post by lindabop on Jan 30, 2015 3:24:09 GMT 1
Not at all nosey, appreciate the help! I do at least 14k a year. See my calculation is anywhere close to yours!
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Post by Noberator on Jan 30, 2015 11:39:40 GMT 1
Not at all nosey, appreciate the help! I do at least 14k a year. See my calculation is anywhere close to yours! See if you can make sense of these figures. Fuel Type Petrol Diesel Price per/ltr £1.059 £1.13 Price per/Gallon £4.81 £5.13 MPG Petrol 35 MPG Diesel 45 Pence per/mile Petrol £0.1374 Pence per/mile Diesel £0.1140 Price per/ltr £1.06 £1.13 Price per/Gallon £4.81 £5.13 Pence per/mile £0.1374 £0.1139 Miles/per year 15,000 15,000 Gallons/per year 428.57 333.33 Cost per year £2,061.43 £1,710.00 Difference over Year £351.43 Weekly Difference £6.76 Tried it another way but still won't display properly.
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Post by lindabop on Jan 30, 2015 12:28:15 GMT 1
Spot on thanks, I had worked it out at £280 a year dearer to run a petrol but then I had different fuel prices etc. must check what prices up here are! Thanks for the info, least I know my maths ain't too bad!
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