Problem clutch-opinions please

[lindabop]

Hi, I'm after some opinions on this clutch that was replaced on my 2011 golf at 38000 miles. Few mechanics have suggested its maybe a fault with the part to be so damaged at such a low mileage, but car dealer is having nothing to do with it as a) it's obviously out of warranty and b)they class pressure plate damage as wear and tear.
now obviously I'm not a mechanic and have no idea about these things so I'm looking for some honest opinions on the matter so I can fight my corner with car dealer, as I really don't think these major components should fail at such a low mileage but don't want to look like a fool if it is something I've genuinely caused myself! Thanks

[Deleted]

Do you think you stand a chance with it ?

[kyle]

38000 miles and needing a new clutch in the first place is low miles still! whats the milage now? whats your driving style? do you ever 'dip' the clutch? who is the clutch made by and were did you get it from? 

[chippie]

Jan 27, 2015 22:08:32 GMT 1 lindabop said:

Hi, I'm after some opinions on this clutch that was replaced on my 2011 golf at 38000 miles. Few mechanics have suggested its maybe a fault with the part to be so damaged at such a low mileage, but car dealer is having nothing to do with it as a) it's obviously out of warranty and b)they class pressure plate damage as wear and tear.
now obviously I'm not a mechanic and have no idea about these things so I'm looking for some honest opinions on the matter so I can fight my corner with car dealer, as I really don't think these major components should fail at such a low mileage but don't want to look like a fool if it is something I've genuinely caused myself! Thanks

My opinion, you've already solicited the opinions of real world mechanics who have said it to be a fault ( a bit non descript, but there you are...) so why can't you use their suggestions to challenge the dealer?
Who supplied the clutch? Who fitted it? What manufacture is the clutch? Was it a full kit?
BTW, no offence to the mechanics here, this is a virtual advice centre..... Lol....

[Karl]

So you've had the clutch replaced and payed for now ?


Your picture isn't great , looks like retaining spring or fingers damaged/broken ?

Was there much wear to the fiction plate or any overheating of components you normally see blue ing or hot spots on surfaces



38,000 miles is low for a clutch wear/failure but not massively un common (though I'm not familiar with these vehicles)


I have seen clutches destroyed well within a few thousand miles


Although yours doesn't appear to be the case

[lindabop]

Hi thank you all for the replies I'll try answer all q's!
1st off no I dont think I stand a chance with the dealer but I am mighty hacked off at having to pay out hundreds of £'s on a car that only 6 month out of warranty and low mileage. But seemingly even if it was still in th 3 year warranty the clutch is only covered up until 6500 miles!
The clutch that was replaced was the original, so im assuming Sachs? Please excuse my stupidity if thats not what you meant!
I wouldn't say im hard on the clutch,I only really do 40 miles a days on flat country roads doing the school run.
I was just after some more opinions because car dealer is adamant its wear and tear, so as I dont know enough about it id like to get as many opinions as I can! Although I think im fighting a loosing battle!
The part of clutch that would be worn with wear and tear and cause slipping is fine, seemingly its good for another 50k!

[Karl]

Normally yes the friction plate of the clutch is a wear/tear item with a limited warranty period

How ever the pressure plate is normally covered by 3 year warranty ( using ford as example) unsure exactly what the terms are for vw

However being a 4 year old vehicle and well out of warranty the manufacturer has no responsibility to cover the cost

Did you buy the vehicle and or have your servicing done by them ?


It situations where the vehicles not far out of warranty the dealer can ask for some goodwill towards the repair

But this seems unlikely now the repair has been completed and payed for by yourself

You could call vw customer services ........ But I'd suspect all they will do is offer you a discount voucher or such like


Unfortunately you have to except even nearly new cars require maintance/repair

[lindabop]

Thanks for reply. VW customer services weren't brilliant to be honest. The clutch is only under warranty for 6500 miles! I've just been looking into the warranty in the parts, ie the warranty that comes with a sachs clutch and unless i have misunderstood it comes with a 2 year or unlimited mileage warranty, either way mine is out of warranty, but it begs the question why do vw only cover it for 6500 miles?

[Noberator]

Jan 28, 2015 10:21:35 GMT 1 lindabop said:

Thanks for reply. VW customer services weren't brilliant to be honest. The clutch is only under warranty for 6500 miles! I've just been looking into the warranty in the parts, ie the warranty that comes with a sachs clutch and unless i have misunderstood it comes with a 2 year or unlimited mileage warranty, either way mine is out of warranty,

but it begs the question why do vw only cover it for 6500 miles?

The answer to that question is the amount of variables can be influenced by driving style and external factors like the weather.

I don't agree with the VW Warranty terms and conditions which state "Beyond that limit the defects must be classified as wear and tear and will not be covered by the Volkswagen warranty."

That last statement IMO is a get out clause for claims as it hasn't any built in variable which the Manufacturers have for a percentage of failures which does happen and these are monitored by the Manufacturer at the Factory.

[lindabop]

Hey thanks for reply. Totally see your about so many different variables, but surely if the manufacturer of the clutch puts a 2 year/unlimited mileage warranty on it VW should honour that? If the clutch was to fail in that time frame would VW not claim on the warranty from Sachs?? Therefore not costing VW? Am I being stupid and missing something?
your last statement, are you saying that genuine failure of these parts does happen?

[Noberator]

Jan 28, 2015 13:17:34 GMT 1 lindabop said:

Hey thanks for reply. Totally see your about so many different variables, but surely if the manufacturer of the clutch puts a 2 year/unlimited mileage warranty on it VW should honour that? If the clutch was to fail in that time frame would VW not claim on the warranty from Sachs?? Therefore not costing VW? Am I being stupid and missing something?
your last statement, are you saying that genuine failure of these parts does happen?

Nothing is 100% perfect and Manufacturers have a failure rate at the factory of < or > a set percentage ie 1% or 0.1% depending on the component.

[rpm]

Im going to go a bit against the flow of some of the others on here.

Bear in mind, this is a mechanics site, happy to offer advice and opinions (but generally on problems/fitting advice/etc)and as such we take any "have a go at mechanic" comment as having a bit of a go at us . If you follow?

But I think VW have a poor policy of limited (very low mileage) warranty on any component. And if it had failed inside 2 years I would have thought the sale of goods act would be enough to be able to argue it. But, its done higher mileage, and its over 2 years, so the argument is very weak in either case.

However, there is then the different driving styles that can cause damage in very low mileage cases. We have all seen clutches that have been ridden and failed in very low mileages, that are definitely the fault of the driver.

But from what I can see of your picture, the retaining ring around the clutch fingers has snapped, and no excessive wear appears on the ends of the fingers. I would like to have seen the driven plate for discolouration/warping or any other fault to be more sure, and to prove or disprove any claim.

My summary? I think (repeat think) its faulty from manufacture, but really dont have enough evidence to give a strong argument.

You wont have been the first to have fallen foul of failure of parts at low mileage/time if that helps, or the last, and especially from the more recent VW offerings. But thats only my opinion, and have nothing to back that comment on, other than experience of problems.

And to add, the unlimited mileage warranty is also offered against the time. As in, whichever occurs first, the time in this case!

[lindabop]

Tea maker thank you for your reply. I'm sorry I don't understand the first part of your reply? I'm sorry if I've offended any mechanic on here?  I'm just after some opinions/advice.

please bear with me on this, the 'driven plate' what part is that? I have the clutch in the boot, if its there I can take a photo?!

yeah I understand that the unlimited mileage was limited to 2 years, but I don't understand why VW don't honour the warranty that Sachs give the clutch.

[rpm]

Jan 28, 2015 21:28:05 GMT 1 lindabop said:

Tea maker thank you for your reply. I'm sorry I don't understand the first part of your reply? I'm sorry if I've offended any mechanic on here?  I'm just after some opinions/advice.

please bear with me on this, the 'driven plate' what part is that? I have the clutch in the boot, if its there I can take a photo?!

yeah I understand that the unlimited mileage was limited to 2 years, but I don't understand why VW don't honour the warranty that Sachs give the clutch.

I do make the tea, but Im RPM please

A lot of people come on these type forums, looking for info from 1 mechanic to have a go at another mechanic. We dont like or support that approach, so my comment was that, we are happy to give opinion and advice. No body is going to stand up and say its FRED's fault.

Have you owned the car from new? or when from?

Is it the original clutch?

The driven plate is the disc that has "clutch material" on both sides of it, with a splined hole in the centre and springs around its body. Its this that does the driving, hence its called the driven plate.

Even though a sachs aftermarket clutch has a 2 year unlimited mileage guarantee, thats with the seller of the clutch, and will not cover incorrect fitting or abuse.

VW put the car together and warranty their car, and in my opinion have a poor get out clause on things like the clutch. But, in their defence, it stops abusers of clutches (there are lots out there) from driving badly and claiming non stop free repairs that are not mechanical faults.

Without more info, its impossible to say if you have been unlucky, or a bad driver (dont take offence). But I dont think you have much chance to win your claim, even though I do suspect the part is genuinely faulty

Hope that helps

[rvr]

I don’t think any advice you receive on this, or any forum, will assist you to establish a case proving a manufacturing defect.

The car’s mileage; the length of time the clutch was installed, and presumably functioning normally, will make impossible to prove a manufacturing defect without having a specialist metallurgist examine the broken parts and then preparing a report capable of forming the basis of a legal case. Even in the unlikely event that a clear manufacturing defect was established, beyond any doubt, the cost of the “expert witness” report and any follow up would almost certainly far exceed the settlement you might receive from VW.

I hope I do not appear to in any way be making light off, or trivialising, your concerns and or the response of VW however; in the real world it is sometimes better to put these things down to experience rather than let them get you down and worse still cost you more money.