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Post by antoniu200 on Apr 29, 2023 10:53:01 GMT 1
Hi,
New to the forum.
Last week I bought myself a used Golf Mk7 (1.6L TDI CLHA) from a car dealer. Yesterday I had it checked out by a local mechanic and they said the front crankshaft is losing a bit of oil, most likely caused by the plastic crankshaft seal.
I called the dealer about this, since they offerred a 1 year warranty on the engine, they said they will do the repair for free in their shop.
Now, my mechanic has not taken an interest in finding crankshaft seals that are better made than the OEM version.
My question for you guys: Is there any crankshaft seal for the CLHA engine that is made of some metal instead of plastic? I have absolutely no idea where to look, since the internet is bombarded by AutoDoc and they don't have anything better than the original.
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Post by Joepublic on Apr 29, 2023 12:25:17 GMT 1
You’re not going to find better than an oe seal, if they find the original gives issues under warranty conditions they will revise it.
So, either yours is an infrequent failure or there will be an updated part available
This is a uk forum btw
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Post by antoniu200 on Apr 29, 2023 15:00:14 GMT 1
I mean, the mechanic told me this is a pretty frequent problem. VW started using plastic crankshaft seals on the engine since 2014. I tend to believe him seeing the comments in this video: youtu.be/fQwFNZ13a7QHow come there are no better seals than the OE one? And why do you think they would revise it? As long as the component is cheap enough where they can deal with warranty requests, VW have no reason to revise it. Sure, the dealer (which is authorized by VW) will replace the crankshaft, but in the long run this design does not seem reliable to me. Would I have to fully swap the engine if I want to get rid of the issue? |
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Post by Rhubarb on Apr 29, 2023 16:33:15 GMT 1
I mean, the mechanic told me this is a pretty frequent problem. VW started using plastic crankshaft seals on the engine since 2014. I tend to believe him seeing the comments in this video: youtu.be/fQwFNZ13a7QHow come there are no better seals than the OE one? And why do you think they would revise it? As long as the component is cheap enough where they can deal with warranty requests, VW have no reason to revise it. Sure, the dealer (which is authorized by VW) will replace the crankshaft, but in the long run this design does not seem reliable to me. Would I have to fully swap the engine if I want to get rid of the issue? Your quote: How come there are no better seals than the OE one? And why do you think they would revise it? As long as the component is cheap enough where they can deal with warranty requests, VW have no reason to revise it. Why don't you ask VW head office? |
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Post by Rhubarb on Apr 29, 2023 16:37:29 GMT 1
youtu.be/fQwFNZ13a7Q
Methinks the way he's fitted this in the video it will leak from the join again.
I would think the correct way to fit it is to remove the sump pan and re-fit it last.
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,971
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Post by remmington on Apr 29, 2023 17:33:45 GMT 1
Common problem - done loads of these for 1.6 VAG TDi engines.
You looking at sump off. New cambelt and plastic Febi oil seal.
This plastic seal is glued to sump - and the sump needs come off and be cleaned and resealed to make a good job of it.
Cambelt - water pump - febi seal - aux belt and alternator overun pulley - oil and filter with labour - £1000... (ish).
Lasting job with warranty...
While you have the sump off - it would be prudent to pay for wet belt to oil pump to be changed at the same time... (extra cost)
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Post by OldGit on Apr 29, 2023 19:25:30 GMT 1
Couple of observations:- Far too much sealant used. As above, to carry out the replacement properly the sump should be removed. No lubrication or use of protective sleeve/guide on the crankshaft, pushing & wiggling the seal at an angle will pretty much guarantee it'll leak.
Yep, it's a 'common' problem, but only on older vehicles - so the seal has exceeded it's design life, therefore no reason to change anything as far as VWG are concerned. I worked at an Audi dealer for a year, in that time, there were two of those seals changed, both well out of warranty period and didn't cause any catastrophic failures.
So yes, it's a wear issue, but not a big one in the scheme of things, anything that is tensioned against a moving surface will suffer wear in it's lifetime. Once the wear becomes excessive, that part is end-of-life. With oil seals in general, oil quality and soot loading / drive cycle can have a significant effect upon wear rates, so yes, if it's your engine that's leaking, it's suddenly a 'big issue', but a vanishingly small percentage of things that VWG have to consider a developing concern.
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Post by antoniu200 on Apr 29, 2023 20:53:50 GMT 1
Cambelt - water pump - febi seal - oil and filter with labour - £1000... (ish). Lasting job with warranty... While you have the sump off - it would be prudent to pay for wet belt to oil pump to be changed at the same time...Roughly how lasting of a job should this be? The car I bought had 150K KM on board, done in about 6 years (from June 2017 to Jan. 2023). And how did older models' oil seal fare? Yep, it's a 'common' problem, but only on older vehicles - so the seal has exceeded it's design life, therefore no reason to change anything as far as VWG are concerned. I worked at an Audi dealer for a year, in that time, there were two of those seals changed, both well out of warranty period and didn't cause any catastrophic failures. I would agree with you, if the design life was not shortened by this move. Plus, we don't have the data on catastrophic failures caused by this. But if you ask me, the car had absolutely no symptoms to suggest it was something wrong with the engine. So it would not be far from causing at least a whole engine failure, which is not something I would afford, especially if not expected. So, I am asking. Is replacing the whole engine the only way of getting rid of this poor front crankshaft seal?
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Post by OldGit on Apr 29, 2023 21:53:14 GMT 1
If there were a significant number of catastrophic failures, 'the internet' would be alive with workarounds, conspiracy theories, analysis and opinions. It isn't. It's a small issue, but because it's happening to you (or anyone else) it becomes a big issue. What do you think the design life is? 150000km is beyond it.
You talk about changing the engine, which seems the sort of overkill americans would be proud of - but change it for what?
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Post by antoniu200 on Apr 29, 2023 23:39:57 GMT 1
If there were a significant number of catastrophic failures, 'the internet' would be alive with workarounds, conspiracy theories, analysis and opinions. It isn't. It's a small issue, but because it's happening to you (or anyone else) it becomes a big issue.
No, it's a small issue because you worked for Audi and seem pretty indoctrinated in the accountant's speech, where nothing is a big issue unless it blows over - until then "it's only a few people; reducing the durability of something on purpose is nothing, we can do a much worse one". Seeing much cheaper cars whose engines are running perfectly even at 300K KM, with only the occasional air filter replaced is enough to tell me (and many mechanics) something is wrong with the design of this seal. What do you think the design life is? 150000km is beyond it. I don't even care to guess what the manufacturer believes the nominal lifespan of this product is, but I would suppose you are one of those who buys a new phone every two years because the manufacturer says it doesn't last longer, no? What exactly do you represent for the owners of this forum for them to allow you to scoff any discussion you don't like however you want? It's a forum, we're here to debate. You talk about changing the engine, which seems the sort of overkill americans would be proud of - but change it for what? Yes, I do. But I am not talking about doing that any time soon. I am talking of 'perspective', maybe the next time the 'issue-less' plastic seal decides to break and I have to pay VW's rent on the engine. But, hey, since you're not here to solve my problem, but to try and explain to me in legal terms why VW's crankshaft seal is fine, I guess I don't have much to talk about here. This thread may be closed. I am expecting no further replies. To any mod, please erase my account. |
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Post by sorted on Apr 30, 2023 6:10:13 GMT 1
Toys out of the pram big time then 😅
Another new joiner, wants to over-complicate the hell out of things as unhappy his 150,000km car has an oil leak - and then ignores all the advice given by the experts on this forum.
Good for entertainment value I guess…..
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,971
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Post by remmington on Apr 30, 2023 7:35:58 GMT 1
Couple of observations:- Far too much sealant used. As above, to carry out the replacement properly the sump should be removed. No lubrication or use of protective sleeve/guide on the crankshaft, pushing & wiggling the seal at an angle will pretty much guarantee it'll leak. Yep, it's a 'common' problem, but only on older vehicles - so the seal has exceeded it's design life, therefore no reason to change anything as far as VWG are concerned. I worked at an Audi dealer for a year, in that time, there were two of those seals changed, both well out of warranty period and didn't cause any catastrophic failures. So yes, it's a wear issue, but not a big one in the scheme of things, anything that is tensioned against a moving surface will suffer wear in it's lifetime. Once the wear becomes excessive, that part is end-of-life. With oil seals in general, oil quality and soot loading / drive cycle can have a significant effect upon wear rates, so yes, if it's your engine that's leaking, it's suddenly a 'big issue', but a vanishingly small percentage of things that VWG have to consider a developing concern.
you are correct  . There is a plastic sleeve to get the seal on with - TPS sell these (extra cost about £8quid) when you buy the seal. Sure the Febi ones come with it in the seal - in the box? I have a tub full of these sleeves if anybody every wants one. I done this job a lot - think the lowest mileage was a VW caddy at 65000miles. The rest were well over 100k I think. Did one a few weeks ago - on a 2019 VW Crafter with a 2.0 engine in it - this had done - 130k --------
If they get past 100k and three years - the seal has exceeded its factory design life.When I done the job - if it gets past 12months or 10000miles - it is out of my "gold standard warranty period". If it fails again after a year/10k - you are more than welcome to pay me again - to do it again - I won't refuse the money -------- Must admit thou - when I did the cambelt on my own VW 2.0 Passat Highline Estate @ 90k - I changed the seal at the same time. Reason being - not because it was leaking - but I was in there with belt off - plus I put a new oil pump wet belt on as well. What shocked me was how "gritty" the residue in the sump of my own car was - I been changing the oil about every 8k and filling it with Quantum 5/30 longlife. I would think this was caused by the first owner - sticking to the longlife service regime. I think the key to a lasting repair for this problem is cleaning the sump out well when it is off - couple of ltrs of petrol and get all the carbon grit out - then change your oil more often. My own car has done another 40k with no problems - but I may change seal again if I ever do enough mileage in it to change the cambelt again (I may buy another car before this time comes thou - fancy a petrol estate car next - no more diesels for me - I can't afford to fund the repairs - on the next generation of Euro6 adblue/NOX oil burners). Another point - the RTV sealant VAG uses/TPS sells in tubes is the best on the planet. You don't need a lot - too much squeezes out inside the sump and blocks internal oil ways up. Less is more as OldGit is indicating. To the OP (original poster of the thread) - I would not panic about the oil seal - they only drip a bit. You getting it done under a sales warranty. I would be more scared of the injectors in these 1.6 engines - I changed hundreds of them with new rocker covers/breathers. There is no reliable exchange program for the stacked injectors - and they are huge money - a set of these can spoil the vehicle ownership for sure. I would not own a VAG 1.6 diesel for this reason myself.
All mileages quoted in UK miles 1k being 1000 UK miles. |
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Post by OldGit on Apr 30, 2023 9:45:34 GMT 1
I don't even care to guess what the manufacturer believes the nominal lifespan of this product is, but I would suppose you are one of those who buys a new phone every two years because the manufacturer says it doesn't last longer, no? I'll reply to the only bit of your spittle-laden response worthy of the electrons:- I usually change my phone every 4-5 years, always for a good used one and take off the supplied spyware by installing a Google free OS, currently using a Oneplus 9 I bought earlier this year for a very good price. If you want to see 'design faults & cut corners', have a look at Landrovers from the last fifteen years or so, I worked for them for a long time and have owned (and still do) their products - the 3.0 TDV6 front crank seals don't just leak, they fall out - now that is something worth getting your spandex in a twist about.....
And as remmington says above, there are far bigger issues to worry about with that engine than a bit of oil misting - and yes, I'd noticed the soot deposits too, I suspect due to oil dilution/bore washing caused by DPF regen failures. |
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Post by Rhubarb on Apr 30, 2023 10:54:02 GMT 1
Wow what an attitude this yank has got.
Never mind 1000 dollars for an injector when it packs up will wake him up. Or 4000 for a set (of four injectors), thought I'd state the obvious being as he's a bit special.
Where there's blame there's a claim (apparently).
Have a nice day yawl!
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Post by Joepublic on Apr 30, 2023 12:54:32 GMT 1
Idiot light on the dash lights orange with oil low level if the owner idiot fails to check the levels himself.
Red light on the dash and STOP OIL PRESSURE on the display too
Imagine if he had an EV, anxiety about a seal, imagine his anxiety about battery range!
I’m on a an American Tdi group on fb, they’re all like him - everything should last for ever….
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. There is a plastic sleeve to get the seal on with - TPS sell these (extra cost about £8quid) when you buy the seal. Sure the Febi ones come with it in the seal - in the box? I have a tub full of these sleeves if anybody every wants one.