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Post by valhalla on Mar 26, 2021 0:33:26 GMT 1
Am I correct in my understanding that the need for a working speedometer has been tightened-up from 2018 onmwards?
It used to be the case, ironically, that the speedo could be malfunctioning, but it needed to be illuminated, prior to the last major round of MoT changes. However, I see that under section 7.8 (b) (ii) that a working speedometer is now a requirement for a modern car.
The reason I ask, and hence seek clarification from greater minds than my own, is that I have a (slightly pushy) customer of mine that wishes to, how do I put this?, "accelerate the repair process" on his somewhat doggy Ford Ranger from 1998 through to 2006 (yes, a "Johnny Cash") that has a very sick instrument pack at this present time. The warning lights are all functional, but the gauges are dead, including the odometer. That is fairly imprtant from my perspective, because it points to good power and ground to the pack, as the warning lamps are fed common voltage rails from either extreme (most lamps have a Vbatt supply rail, but some rely on a ground supply rail, and all work).
I have had the pack on my electrical bench for a number weeks now, and have recently done a fair bit of investigation into the innards of the main circuit board, but each thing I fix does not appear to be the root of the issue (no internal power-supply to the four gauges or odometer). Owner wants this vehicle back for an MoT and "loads of important jobs", but I have not found anyone (yet) familiar enough with the Visteon instrument packs on these, to send it away for repair.
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Post by Noberator on Mar 26, 2021 4:14:52 GMT 1
Yes as far as I am aware it has to work.
Defect Category
(a) Speedometer not fitted where one is required Major
(b) Speedometer:
(i) operation impaired Minor
(ii) not working Major
(c) Speedometer:
(i) not sufficiently illuminated Minor
(ii) not illuminated Major
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Post by valhalla on Mar 26, 2021 12:19:18 GMT 1
Certainly the illumination works on this instrument pack, and I had hoped that it would be sufficient to get the vehicle through its test.....
What doesn't seem clear is how the lack of working of the speedo is established, given that nothing within the test should involve getting the needle to move off the stop. That might be a moot point whatsoever, given that none of the dials move off their stops, nor the odometer display fail to, well, display.......
I have pinned-down the model that uses this instrument cluster; the Mazda B2500 of 2002-2005 in the UK has this pack. That is the only match I can get, as everything else appears to be more modern/fancier than the one fitted here. All the spare instrument clusters on eBay, bar one exception, are more modern.
What I have established with a bit of searching; all of this particular type of pack fail in one way - smoke appears from behind the cluster, then the gauges stop working. In theory, the vehicle shouldn't start and run without the pack fitted, as the one exception I have found for the unavailability of this spare part (on eBay) includes a complete imobilser "set" of parts - instrument cluster + imob unit + key-barrel + key + engine ECU
I might have to see whether £165 of spare bits is worth this chap's time, just to find that it all has to be swapped over at some point.
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Post by Rhubarb on Mar 26, 2021 14:06:04 GMT 1
A Sat Nav has a Speedo and is illuminated. Sounds like this old thing has had its day  Although the Mazda Speedo looks the same I bet some of the wiring \ connectors are different even though these are all Mazda based. |
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Post by remmington on Mar 26, 2021 19:11:54 GMT 1
Certainly the illumination works on this instrument pack, and I had hoped that it would be sufficient to get the vehicle through its test..... What doesn't seem clear is how the lack of working of the speedo is established, given that nothing within the test should involve getting the needle to move off the stop. That might be a moot point whatsoever, given that none of the dials move off their stops, nor the odometer display fail to, well, display....... I have pinned-down the model that uses this instrument cluster; the Mazda B2500 of 2002-2005 in the UK has this pack. That is the only match I can get, as everything else appears to be more modern/fancier than the one fitted here. All the spare instrument clusters on eBay, bar one exception, are more modern. What I have established with a bit of searching; all of this particular type of pack fail in one way - smoke appears from behind the cluster, then the gauges stop working. In theory, the vehicle shouldn't start and run without the pack fitted, as the one exception I have found for the unavailability of this spare part (on eBay) includes a complete imobilser "set" of parts - instrument cluster + imob unit + key-barrel + key + engine ECU I might have to see whether £165 of spare bits is worth this chap's time, just to find that it all has to be swapped over at some point.
Make sure you check part numbers and buy in the exact correct number. I doubt if it will fail on the speedo not working in a real world MOT. |
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Joepublic
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Post by Joepublic on Mar 26, 2021 21:04:21 GMT 1
Some motorbike engined kit cars use a bicycle speedo, you could use one with the sender fitted to read propshaft speed?
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Post by studabear on Mar 26, 2021 22:10:33 GMT 1
Speedo lighting up is testable from memory, we don't have to physically check the operation of the speedo unless we suspect its defective.
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Post by valhalla on Mar 26, 2021 23:50:24 GMT 1
Some interesting points above!
I have a mate with some pretty old classics from the 1930's, and I know that his attitude to these things is to do just what has been suggested here; go "modern" with a GPS-based speedo that has a decent backlight. It can be unbolted whenever he displays the cars, but in everyday use of them, it is the main instrument of choice.
I might put this forward as an option for this owner, albeit that it might look a little odd.....
The pack is going back together for another test ASAP (probably Monday morning now) but it is driving me nuts with the circuit layout; I suspected that the main electrolytic capacitor was likely to be the culprit (it wasn't) but in removing said capacitor from the board to test it, I have realised that it isn't connected anyway!! I have looked and looked, but the cathode is grounded to the circuit-board earth-printing, but the anode is isolated from everything, both visually and electrically.......utterly mad, and no wonder it hasn't failed yet.... 
I have done as much as I can with this now, so whatever the outcome next week, the vehicle is out of my hair.
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Post by studabear on Mar 26, 2021 23:53:38 GMT 1
My Escorts speedo hasn't worked since I fitted the MTX75 gearbox, I haven't told the tester I will be sorting it this year, to save adding a few miles with my drill  |
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Post by valhalla on Mar 31, 2021 0:33:28 GMT 1
I ordered one of the "eBay special" 3" GPS speedo and odometer units last night. It was Hobson's choice with the fix for this Ranger; if the owner wants it back, it will have to run with one of these, and I can sort the warning-functions for low-fuel and high-coolant-temp in due course, as and when he can spare the vehicle.
I re-checked through the MoT Tester's manual for any pitfalls, but fitting a working speedo and odometer with a permanent backlight seems to tick all the boxes - until the next revisions come out....
It's going to look b****y awful in the dash, but as this vehicle is not exactly a trailer-queen, I'm not losing any sleep over it!!
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Post by remmington on Mar 31, 2021 0:59:26 GMT 1
I ordered one of the "eBay special" 3" GPS speedo and odometer units last night. It was Hobson's choice with the fix for this Ranger; if the owner wants it back, it will have to run with one of these, and I can sort the warning-functions for low-fuel and high-coolant-temp in due course, as and when he can spare the vehicle. I re-checked through the MoT Tester's manual for any pitfalls, but fitting a working speedo and odometer with a permanent backlight seems to tick all the boxes - until the next revisions come out.... It's going to look b****y awful in the dash, but as this vehicle is not exactly a trailer-queen, I'm not losing any sleep over it!! One of my customers is still driving about an aging T4 van - with a huge red horn button - screwed into dash board at arms reach from the steering wheel. I reckon it has passed a dozen MOTS with it fitted. 40mm push to touch round switch - horn lettering burnt into it with a soldering iron and some black paint in the groove made with the soldering iron. A little budget modification (bodge)... |
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Post by valhalla on Apr 12, 2021 23:30:08 GMT 1
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Post by remmington on Apr 13, 2021 6:35:56 GMT 1
Looks like it should be there! |
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Joepublic
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Post by Joepublic on Apr 13, 2021 7:15:41 GMT 1
Good fit and extended the useful life of a vehicle / happy customer? |
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Post by valhalla on Apr 13, 2021 22:58:09 GMT 1
Good fit and extended the useful life of a vehicle / happy customer? I think he is happy - paid the bill and added a bit on for luck.
I'm reasonably happy with the fit and finish. It was a very tight fit (as the actress said to the bishop) with around 2mm radial tolerance permitted, so the fact that it all went back together is a bonus. It did get the speedo very slightly turned by a couple of degrees from horizontal, which was annoying, and that was due to having to assemble the new speedo body to the front of the cluster, let the glue set overnight, then offer the front panel to the main instrument body and attach the GPS coax lead at the same time. Only by having the whole lot together does the "artificial horizon" all start to work again, meaning that the clusters of warning lamps along the bottom suddenly give a true datum from which to compare.
The speedo itself works very well, and once the system has been switched-on for around 30 seconds, it seems to find its satellites very quickly for the rest of the day - circa 5seconds each time. The readout on the dial is smooth and quick, and resolves down to 5mph easily, so it all seems very "natural" against the normal cluster.
Next problem/s : Make a solution for the fuel gauge and the coolant temp gauge!!!
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