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Post by remmington on Feb 21, 2021 9:50:00 GMT 1
My initial thoughts were - Adding VED to fuel was the answer. I thought this would push the MPG usage race forward (for the highest MPG).
But to be honest - if you are in the transport industry - with trucks doing 5 to 10 MPG - this just is not fair. Yes they could do a rebate scheme for the transport industry. But to be honest they can't bottom out a rebate scheme for the end of red diesel for farmers/marine/plant users.
I do think the VED/road tax rates are too complicated - I struggle to work out what costs what.
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On a tangent...
I think a litre of petrol/diesel is cheap really - when you think UK fuel duty is currently 57.95 pence per litre for petrol and diesel - VAT is 20%. It is pumped out of the ground thousands of miles away - it is refined - shipped in huge tankers or piped long distances - re pumped - stored - trucked - pumped and sold - it is heavy to ship - it has been thru the hands of many people earning out of it. We sadly even fund expensive long wars and conflicts to obtain it..!
Put it another was - local spring water per comes out of the earth under its own pressure - it is a simpler process to bottle and distribute - it has no VAT/duty - and it is about the same price per litre!
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Post by Joepublic on Feb 21, 2021 10:44:43 GMT 1
  2 mk1 Audi TT 3.2 with dsg gearboxes, what a nonsense? |
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Post by remmington on Feb 21, 2021 13:10:34 GMT 1
2 mk1 Audi TT 3.2 with dsg gearboxes, what a nonsense? It is unreal is it not? I got two little 1.0 ltr VAGS as courtesy cars now - same age - same age give or take 10months - same engine/engine code - same ECU control system. One is Citigo and it is £0 - the other is VW UP and it is £20. For the same car! |
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Post by Noberator on Feb 21, 2021 13:35:56 GMT 1
2 mk1 Audi TT 3.2 with dsg gearboxes, what a nonsense? It is unreal is it not? Do your two vehicles in question have different CO2 Emissions hence the different annual rate for cars registered from 1st March 2001 to 31st March 2017 I suspect one is band A and the other is band B as below. VED Band CO2 Emissions Annual rate A Up to 100 g/km £0 B 101-110 g/km £20 |
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Post by Noberator on Feb 21, 2021 13:51:49 GMT 1
My Mondeo ST220 was first registered on the 1st September 2004 (so it's a 54 plate). It is a band K* 201-225 g/km £330 per/annum RFL. CO2 Emissions are 249g/km *The Band K rate also applies to cars that were registered before 23rd March 2006 and have CO2 emissions figure over 225g/km. The same exact car registered from the 23rd March 2006 is then moved to a band L as such 201-225 g/km £565 per/annum RFL. CO2 Emissions are 249g/km. Don't get me going about VED refunds.  When ownership of a vehicle is transferred the previous owner gets a refund on any outstanding road tax but (isn't there always a but) that refund is calculated from the beginning of the next month. The new owner on the other hand has to tax the car anew and their bill is calculated from the beginning of the current month. |
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Post by remmington on Feb 21, 2021 15:10:16 GMT 1
remmingtonDo your two vehicles in question have different CO2 Emissions hence the different annual rate for cars registered from 1st March 2001 to 31st March 2017 I suspect one is band A and the other is band B as below. VED Band CO2 Emissions Annual rate A Up to 100 g/km £0 B 101-110 g/km £20 Not sure? Would have to check up that? I would think you are right thou! But in reality they can't - they are the same thing! Unless VW failed to get it hot enough for the gas test at the factory - they got all the 2.0 CR diesels warm enough thou! (VW emissions scandal - remember it?). What annoys me more is: My Scooter - Honda ANFS 110i (Modern 4 speed C90). 135mpg fitted with a Euro 3 catalytic converter - 8.25bhp 108cc - fuel injected with a closed loop management system. The plug is white it runs so lean. When gas tested on my Ten four gas analyser - the air is dirtier going in - than it is coming out of the exhaust (no joke). The VED rate is £20 a year for this. Nothing is better for the planet (it should be free or they should be paying me!) It has realistic service life of 45000miles - it has only done 10000miles and is six years old (2014). No huge holes were dug in the earth's surface to obtain lithium. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------- The same people who are sorting VED rates out - also are sorting the NHS/Brexit/CV19 out. Don't wanna get too political but it does worry me - if I give it some thought. |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 21, 2021 19:18:32 GMT 1
My initial thoughts were - Adding VED to fuel was the answer. I thought this would push the MPG usage race forward (for the highest MPG). But to be honest - if you are in the transport industry - with trucks doing 5 to 10 MPG - this just is not fair. Yes they could do a rebate scheme for the transport industry. But to be honest they can't bottom out a rebate scheme for the end of red diesel for farmers/marine/plant users. This ws discussed by government some time back - one reason why they steered-clear of substuting VED by fuel duty, as the Transport lobby was too strong.
I'm not sure what sort of VED is on a big truck these days. My 7.5ton rcovery truck was only around £450, if memory serves me correctly, when I last used her on the roads about 7years ago. She did 18mpg, and I hardly used her, so fuel duty would have been much better for me. However, had a fair price been levied on that truck, it would have been nearer £800 for the amount of potential damage it could have caused to the roads and infrastructure.....
The trouble is, a fairly significant amount of damage is done by heavy trucks. If they are racking-up the mileage each year, they are also contributing a lot more polution and damage to the roads than an occasional user, and therefore ought to be paying their fair way to restoration of the roads/environment, and as they are commercial, they ought to be recharging that onto transort costs. It's no different to the garage trade; you are expected to recharge to the customer a fair compensation for the costs you have incurred, some of which are related to legislation that protects the environment, such as waste-recovery. You would also expect to get your money back from the customer for wear-and-tear on the tools, etc. etc.
There definitely needs to be an "escalator", where the more you use the roads, the more you contribute to their upkeep. Fuel duty was one way to meeting that need.
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Post by Joepublic on Feb 21, 2021 21:11:38 GMT 1
2 mk1 Audi TT 3.2 with dsg gearboxes, what a nonsense? It is unreal is it not? I got two little 1.0 ltr VAGS as courtesy cars now - same age - same age give or take 10months - same engine/engine code - same ECU control system. One is Citigo and it is £0 - the other is VW UP and it is £20. For the same car! It could be a marketing ploy? The skoda will be slightly built down, maybe lighter, skinnier tyres to achieve better emissions? "You're getting a VW at Skoda prices AND the skoda is free RFL!" |
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Post by Noberator on Feb 21, 2021 22:25:19 GMT 1
It is unreal is it not? I got two little 1.0 ltr VAGS as courtesy cars now - same age - same age give or take 10months - same engine/engine code - same ECU control system. One is Citigo and it is £0 - the other is VW UP and it is £20. For the same car! It could be a marketing ploy? The skoda will be slightly built down, maybe lighter, skinnier tyres to achieve better emissions? "You're getting a VW at Skoda prices AND the skoda is free RFL!" There's a very good chance that is the answer to the conundrum.  |
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Post by remmington on Feb 22, 2021 8:09:37 GMT 1
The Skoda is on steel wheels and the VW is on alloys (wider tyres). You may well be right.  The Skoda has a full size spare/jack - the VW does not! Oh... Neither on them are great on fuel consumption - 40mpg is the best you will get! The Skoda is trully down on spec - no central locking - no electric windows - less seating adjustment - no aircon - real poverty spec. But the Skoda has a good radio/heater. But the Skoda came with the best OE spec cup ashtray you have ever seen. So I vote it the best car out of the two (free RFL/spare wheel/ashtray from heaven). Skoda have dropped the Citigo - Seat have dropped making the Mii as well. Only VW make the UP now. Shame sensible little run a round cars (maybe even the new K11 micra for the 2020's) |
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Post by upkeep on Feb 22, 2021 19:18:05 GMT 1
£40K+ is a tax on the rich, not a bad thing really? Yes thanks for that
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Post by Joepublic on Feb 22, 2021 20:44:13 GMT 1
£40K+ is a tax on the rich, not a bad thing really? Yes thanks for that Buy one for £39,999.99, I'm sure some switched on manufacturer does so? A lad at work owns a BMW M4, its got a Li-ON battery, cost £1000 including the coding in at the main dealers, flash costs, suck it up! |
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Post by remmington on Feb 22, 2021 20:53:54 GMT 1
Buy one for £39,999.99, I'm sure some switched on manufacturer does so? A lad at work owns a BMW M4, its got a Li-ON battery, cost £1000 including the coding in at the main dealers, flash costs, suck it up! £1k for a starting battery - OUCH... |
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oli
Apprentice
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Post by oli on Feb 23, 2021 0:01:18 GMT 1
Buy one for £39,999.99, I'm sure some switched on manufacturer does so? A lad at work owns a BMW M4, its got a Li-ON battery, cost £1000 including the coding in at the main dealers, flash costs, suck it up! £1k for a starting battery - OUCH... Even worse than the cost, can you imagine the grief in a few years time of trying to explain to the teenager behind the counter at ECP that you want a Li-ON battery, rather than a Lion one?! 😣 |
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Post by remmington on Feb 23, 2021 7:52:54 GMT 1
£1k for a starting battery - OUCH... Even worse than the cost, can you imagine the grief in a few years time of trying to explain to the teenager behind the counter at ECP that you want a Li-ON battery, rather than a Lion one?! 😣 That made an old man smile! (me).. |
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