oli
Apprentice
Posts: 1,065
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Post by oli on Feb 15, 2021 16:12:57 GMT 1
Like most people, I was a bit preoccupied during most of 2020, but am I the only one to have blinked and missed quite a big change to VED/roadtax? Or as it now seems to be, a showroom tax as well (I thought we already had that in the form of VAT!)
I also can’t be the only person who thinks it’s a bit of a mess and rather complicated with the old systems still in operation for some vehicles.
We seem to have gone full circle back to the old flat rate with an additional showroom tax and luxury tax for the first five years of your vehicle was more than £40k new.
For my own little fleet between three and thirty-six years old, it seems to have no relationship to how polluting they are, either in terms of CO2, particulates or ability to clog the world up with plastic when they reach the end of their life. The little 2005 petrol mini gets clobbered, despite the exhaust actually being fairly clean from a pedestrian perspective, while the newer diesel mini gets off almost Scot free, despite being much dirtier. The 3.2 truck dodged a bullet by being ‘commercial’ despite being a family car and my SWB Landy who, like an old family pet, spends most of his life asleep, only waking up occasionally to embarrass himself and make a mess somewhere, gets the biggest spanking from Rishi. Though only for a few more years...
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Post by Noberator on Feb 15, 2021 20:16:08 GMT 1
Like most people, I was a bit preoccupied during most of 2020, but am I the only one to have blinked and missed quite a big change to VED/roadtax? Or as it now seems to be, a showroom tax as well (I thought we already had that in the form of VAT!) I also can’t be the only person who thinks it’s a bit of a mess and rather complicated with the old systems still in operation for some vehicles. We seem to have gone full circle back to the old flat rate with an additional showroom tax and luxury tax for the first five years of your vehicle was more than £40k new. For my own little fleet between three and thirty-six years old, it seems to have no relationship to how polluting they are, either in terms of CO2, particulates or ability to clog the world up with plastic when they reach the end of their life. The little 2005 petrol mini gets clobbered, despite the exhaust actually being fairly clean from a pedestrian perspective, while the newer diesel mini gets off almost Scot free, despite being much dirtier. The 3.2 truck dodged a bullet by being ‘commercial’ despite being a family car and my SWB Landy who, like an old family pet, spends most of his life asleep, only waking up occasionally to embarrass himself and make a mess somewhere, gets the biggest spanking from Rishi. Though only for a few more years... I also have taken my eye of this subject and you are correct.Cars that cost more than £40k to buy currently incur an extra cost. This will likely rise from the current rate of £325 when the Government’s 2021 Budget which will be announced on 3rd March 2021.and will be charged annually for the five years after your first-year tax runs out. A member of my family bought a new 68 plate(in February 2019)Audi A6 2 Litre diesel Euro AG6 CO2 Emissions 117/gkm which is £150 VED. But due to the new Additional Premium of £325 for five years (after the first year) for vehicles with a list price above £40k with or without discount it's £475 per annum.  So VED rates usually get increased by a few quid each year so IMO it will increase again albeit by a small amount.  Unless the take pity on us all.  |
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oli
Apprentice
Posts: 1,065
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Post by oli on Feb 15, 2021 20:51:45 GMT 1
I’d not thought about the second owner being stung. That would be a rather nasty surprise, especially if you were unaware it was the RRP, rather than the actual price paid.
They should have just stuck it on fuel duty 30 years ago, when the push to reduce co2 started. The problem now is with electric cars, it’s impossible to tax the ‘fuel’ so there will have to be some sort of tax on the vehicles themselves as we’ve got so used to fuel duty being a major revenue stream for the government. Or tolls will be the new thing via a black box.
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Post by Noberator on Feb 15, 2021 21:15:16 GMT 1
That would be a rather nasty surprise, especially if you were unaware it was the RRP, rather than the actual price paid. They should have just stuck it on fuel duty 30 years ago, when the push to reduce co2 started. The problem now is with electric cars, it’s impossible to tax the ‘fuel’ so there will have to be some sort of tax on the vehicles themselves as we’ve got so used to fuel duty being a major revenue stream for the government. Or tolls will be the new thing via a black box. Quite a lot will not be aware of the total cost should it be classed as secondhand for the next owner within the time frame so you have to do your homework and don't rely on the salesperson being upfront.  My family member I believe was aware of the costs due to the fact he was buying a new motor before the new 19 plate coming out on the 1st March 2019 and in his words "an above trade in price for his used A6". He checked with me first and I told him to push for X,Y,Z, and it was given. It's a lovely motor A6 2 litre S line Auto (with paddle shift) and all the toys in black and I've driven it once it puts my Mondeo to shame.  |
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Post by Joepublic on Feb 15, 2021 21:18:01 GMT 1
£40K+ is a tax on the rich, not a bad thing really?
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Post by Noberator on Feb 15, 2021 21:37:50 GMT 1
£40K+ is a tax on the rich, not a bad thing really? My family member isn't rich (that I'm aware of)just works hard for his wages and enjoys the finer things in life ie nice motor and gadgets. |
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Post by Joepublic on Feb 15, 2021 21:45:20 GMT 1
£40K+ is a tax on the rich, not a bad thing really? My family member isn't rich (that I'm aware of)just works hard for his wages and enjoys the finer things in life ie nice motor and gadgets. Its higher than the national average wage, my sympathies lie elsewhere tbh. If you can afford one, good for you, enjoy your hard earned toys, £6/7 per week in extra tax is small change really? |
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Post by Noberator on Feb 15, 2021 21:49:59 GMT 1
My family member isn't rich (that I'm aware of)just works hard for his wages and enjoys the finer things in life ie nice motor and gadgets. Its higher than the national average wage, my sympathies lie elsewhere tbh. If you can afford one, good for you, enjoy your hard earned toys, £6/7 per week in extra tax is small change really? I've lost count what the National average wage is these days  as I'm now classed an O.A.P. remember. |
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oli
Apprentice
Posts: 1,065
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Post by oli on Feb 16, 2021 0:00:46 GMT 1
I think my issue with this is the inconsistency. Taxation should be used to raise revenue in which case make it as fair and painless as possible or to genuinely change behaviour. What I really object to is punitive taxes in situations where the individual has no choice - revenue generating schemes masquerading as behaviour changing ‘sin’ taxes. If you are on a low wage but work antisocial hours, like a carer then something like my little 2005 1.4 petrol mini may be all you can afford - and ideal if you do relatively short journeys - yet you pay £240. Paradoxically when you earn more, you get a nicer car, which costs less to tax and probably uses less fuel.
I don’t disagree specifically with the current tax, but why not do it retrospectively, say cap everything at £150? In five years time a top spec Range Rover purchased now will be £150 to tax, yet a family with less money could still be paying £260 for a Mondeo!
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Post by Joepublic on Feb 16, 2021 0:36:03 GMT 1
I think my issue with this is the inconsistency. Taxation should be used to raise revenue in which case make it as fair and painless as possible or to genuinely change behaviour. What I really object to is punitive taxes in situations where the individual has no choice - revenue generating schemes masquerading as behaviour changing ‘sin’ taxes. If you are on a low wage but work antisocial hours, like a carer then something like my little 2005 1.4 petrol mini may be all you can afford - and ideal if you do relatively short journeys - yet you pay £240. Paradoxically when you earn more, you get a nicer car, which costs less to tax and probably uses less fuel. I don’t disagree specifically with the current tax, but why not do it retrospectively, say cap everything at £150? In five years time a top spec Range Rover purchased now will be £150 to tax, yet a family with less money could still be paying £260 for a Mondeo! But the RR owner will be paying more in fuel tax, VAT on services and parts - they break a lot. Whatever system you use will have loopholes due to the diversity of the carpark and previous changes in VED calculation criteria. I bought a Feb 2001 Golf TDi, the exact same car registered in March the same year was £85 cheaper year after year |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 16, 2021 1:03:31 GMT 1
I think that oli hit it on the head in the post a few steps back : The RFL should be replaced by a fuel duty. Much simpler, and much more to the point.
Maybe by making it too simple, the "dead hand of government" sees civil servants being deprived of a dishonest living in the future?
I am looking through the fleet and wondering whether to concentrate on my "Classics" a bit more for general transportation. SD1 is 40years old this year, and still packs a 126mph potential without costing me too much at the pumps (averages 28.4mpg) and free tax at that........ I rarely get the chance to do more than 3000miles/annum across all the cars, so much cheaper to keep the classics on the road than pay for road fund duty on sleeping "moderns".
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Post by Joepublic on Feb 16, 2021 1:11:10 GMT 1
I think that oli hit it on the head in the post a few steps back : The RFL should be replaced by a fuel duty. Much simpler, and much more to the point. Maybe by making it too simple, the "dead hand of government" sees civil servants being deprived of a dishonest living in the future? I am looking through the fleet and wondering whether to concentrate on my "Classics" a bit more for general transportation. SD1 is 40years old this year, and still packs a 126mph potential without costing me too much at the pumps (averages 28.4mpg) and free tax at that........ I rarely get the chance to do more than 3000miles/annum across all the cars, so much cheaper to keep the classics on the road than pay for road fund duty on sleeping "moderns". No VED means I can MOT 10 cars, have a multi car or shonky traders policy and fill my street with cars meaning no on street parking for any of my neighbours! VED on the same 10 probably means £2000+? |
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Post by Dragon on Feb 16, 2021 21:53:24 GMT 1
I think that oli hit it on the head in the post a few steps back : The RFL should be replaced by a fuel duty. Much simpler, and much more to the point. Maybe by making it too simple, the "dead hand of government" sees civil servants being deprived of a dishonest living in the future? I am looking through the fleet and wondering whether to concentrate on my "Classics" a bit more for general transportation. SD1 is 40years old this year, and still packs a 126mph potential without costing me too much at the pumps (averages 28.4mpg) and free tax at that........ I rarely get the chance to do more than 3000miles/annum across all the cars, so much cheaper to keep the classics on the road than pay for road fund duty on sleeping "moderns". They did that over here about 15 years ago but the they are now looking at ways of trying to return lost revenue, car's now more efficent, electric cars and more people using the bus, mean it's falling every year even with them increasing the amount of tax they keep adding, the biggest market seem's to be electric push bikes!! |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 16, 2021 23:00:43 GMT 1
No VED means I can MOT 10 cars, have a multi car or shonky traders policy and fill my street with cars meaning no on street parking for any of my neighbours!VED on the same 10 probably means £2000+? That's between you and your neighbours.....
You can explain to them that you can only drive one at a time, so their dear little one's lungs are only getting one healthy dose of "the good stuff" at a time (the good stuff being that rich smell of 4-star with a bit of leak-down GTX past the valve stems)
I would have to go some way to fill my street, such that my neighbours cannot pass, and even if I did, I would expect to have the good-news from a JCB front shovel to assist their removal..... , and besides, the MoT's would all be long-expired by the time I got around to repairs. |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 18, 2021 23:22:16 GMT 1
I'm not the only one that thinks that some cars, even more modern ones, should be exempt from vehicle tax.
There are definitely some makes that are far above the rest on quality and style, and seem to attract a lot of good-will amongst the wider public.
The papers this week are full of headlines to this effect : "Free licence for Rover-75's"
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as I'm now classed an O.A.P. remember. 
