Knowledge Sharing (Useful)

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2015 22:06:51 GMT 1 upkeep said:

The cynic in me will counter this by all the vehicles exploding as you use a mobile phone while refueling and airbag's exploding by not being earthed and the courses I have been on saying 1 single missfire will destroy the cat, as Old Joe the car cleaner goes by on  2 cylinders after steamcleaning the engine bay.

Must be something in the oil during normal running that prevents all the problems   its definitely not got static in it while swimming in oil 

[rpm]

Dec 18, 2015 8:58:37 GMT 1 @autotech said:

Dec 17, 2015 22:06:51 GMT 1 upkeep said:

The cynic in me will counter this by all the vehicles exploding as you use a mobile phone while refueling and airbag's exploding by not being earthed and the courses I have been on saying 1 single missfire will destroy the cat, as Old Joe the car cleaner goes by on  2 cylinders after steamcleaning the engine bay.

Must be something in the oil during normal running that prevents all the problems   its definitely not got static in it while swimming in oil 

I doubt there is anything electrical (able to be damaged by static) that is designed or allowed to be swimming in oil

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2015 12:15:41 GMT 1 rpm said:

Dec 18, 2015 8:58:37 GMT 1 @autotech said:

Must be something in the oil during normal running that prevents all the problems   its definitely not got static in it while swimming in oil 

I doubt there is anything electrical (able to be damaged by static) that is designed or allowed to be swimming in oil

Have you not heard about refrigerant yf1234  and the electric compressor? 

[remmington]

Dec 18, 2015 21:20:39 GMT 1 @autotech said:

Dec 18, 2015 12:15:41 GMT 1 rpm said:

I doubt there is anything electrical (able to be damaged by static) that is designed or allowed to be swimming in oil

Have you not heard about refrigerant yf1234  and the electric compressor? 

Prey tell me more about the "yf1234 and electric compressor"

[Karl]

Yep boom !

[Karl]

But did you know what gas Mercedes what's to use instead co2 ! Good choice in a closed cabin
So EU said of course oh no no no

[Deleted]

Any body re- fitted an active wheel speed sensor and it fails soon after ??

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2015 22:35:52 GMT 1 remmington said:

Dec 18, 2015 21:20:39 GMT 1 @autotech said:

Have you not heard about refrigerant yf1234  and the electric compressor? 

Prey tell me more about the "yf1234 and electric compressor"

I can't remember the exact working voltages now of the electric compressor, however the voltage is very high, somewhere between 250 - 330 VDC, if you touch the compressor while operating, your just dead. The insulation to prevent electric shock is the refrigerant yf1234, that is it, nothing else. We need to be very careful with modern vehicles and manufacturers designs, what we think and what they think are two entire different views it seems, I for one don't want the short straw.   

Dec 18, 2015 22:41:43 GMT 1 Karl said:

But did you know what gas Mercedes what's to use instead co2 ! Good choice in a closed cabin
So EU said of course oh no no no

C02 is not a health hazard, so initially a few years back some manufacturers thought it was a good replacement for R134a, however the increased costs of manufacturer of components because of the high operating pressures C02 needs to function at to make it perform good cooling prohibits it use in the opinion of some manufacturers, also C02 under high operating pressures displaces air, so where significant leak(s) occur in evaporators this could cause sudden suffocation of people in the passengers compartment, especially babies in secure child seats when serious problems occur.

It was decided that C02 was not recommended for passenger's carrying vehicles air conditioning systems, hence they created another problem instead, flammable yf1234 refrigerant. 

[gasmonkey]

Dec 19, 2015 22:26:01 GMT 1 @autotech said:

I can't remember the exact working voltages now of the electric compressor, however the voltage is very high, somewhere between 250 - 330 VDC, if you touch the compressor while operating, your just dead. The insulation to prevent electric shock is the refrigerant yf1234, that is it, nothing else. We need to be very careful with modern vehicles and manufacturers designs, what we think and what they think are two entire different views it seems, I for one don't want the short straw.   

That's not strictly true! A/C compressors on hybrids cannot use PAG oil as it's electrically conductive. Usually POE oils are used as they have a degree of resistance to electrical short circuits. You certainly won't get electrocuted just by touching the A/C compressor on a hybrid that is operating correctly and filled with the correct oil.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2015 17:38:51 GMT 1 gasmonkey said:

Dec 19, 2015 22:26:01 GMT 1 @autotech said:

I can't remember the exact working voltages now of the electric compressor, however the voltage is very high, somewhere between 250 - 330 VDC, if you touch the compressor while operating, your just dead. The insulation to prevent electric shock is the refrigerant yf1234, that is it, nothing else. We need to be very careful with modern vehicles and manufacturers designs, what we think and what they think are two entire different views it seems, I for one don't want the short straw.   

That's not strictly true! A/C compressors on hybrids cannot use PAG oil as it's electrically conductive. Usually POE oils are used as they have a degree of resistance to electrical short circuits. You certainly won't get electrocuted just by touching the A/C compressor on a hybrid that is operating correctly and filled with the correct oil.

We maybe getting a little cross wired here gasmonkey, I don't recall referring to PAG oil or POE oils, I was (incorrectly or otherwise) told that the insulation of the electric compressor is carried out by yf1234 refrigerant, so if the refrigerant had leaked out then the potential for a dangerous electrical shock (according to what I was told) would be present. 

It's very clear that I have been lead to believe that the air con compressor is insulated by the refrigerant, so with this in mind I'll double check the information and get back to you on this point. I take this to be very important as we could be seriously injured or killed from what I was told, we must be right on this subject for ALL concerned. 

[gasmonkey]

Autotech, I referred to the oils because it's the oil that acts as the insulater, not the refrigerant.

I'm sure there is the potential for injury in the event of a refrigerant and therefore oil leak, that is why the correct equipment must be used and procedures must be adhered to. But just touching the compressor of a faultless system will not kill you.

[rpm]

Im getting more than a little confused here.

Started off with static killing components in oil filled gearboxes and we are now onto aircon compressors on hybrids ?

I still dont understand what components, electric or otherwise, that are swimming in gear oils, that dan be damaged whilst servicing or fixing, especially not immediately ?

I avoid hybrids due to lack of knowledge and no interest in spending money and time in any training, and i dont touch aircon, so im out of my depth here!

But any more info on how not to kill a gearbox is useful

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2015 20:30:17 GMT 1 gasmonkey said:

Autotech, I referred to the oils because it's the oil that acts as the insulater, not the refrigerant.

I'm sure there is the potential for injury in the event of a refrigerant and therefore oil leak, that is why the correct equipment must be used and procedures must be adhered to. But just touching the compressor of a faultless system will not kill you.

gasmonkey just looked into the archives, sorry my bad, either I have got confused along the line over time, or I was initially advised incorrectly, however you are correct about the oil being the insulation for the compressor, and again the voltage is not DC, apparently it is AC over two hundred volts, either way, if the insulation breaks down we need to be very careful working on the system, and we must be aware of the potential dangers we face. 

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2015 21:05:02 GMT 1 rpm said:

Im getting more than a little confused here.

Started off with static killing components in oil filled gearboxes and we are now onto aircon compressors on hybrids ?

I still dont understand what components, electric or otherwise, that are swimming in gear oils, that dan be damaged whilst servicing or fixing, especially not immediately ?

I avoid hybrids due to lack of knowledge and no interest in spending money and time in any training, and i dont touch aircon, so im out of my depth here!

But any more info on how not to kill a gearbox is useful

rpm I have not forgot about the automatic gearboxes, their static and their oils, however the manufacturer may take a little while longer before they contact me regarding this issue, please be patient it will arrive. 

[rhyds]

The issue isn't static damage to the components while they're in use, but rather someone discharging static in to the ECU or sensors via the connector plug when fitting it.