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Post by valhalla on Feb 27, 2020 18:46:18 GMT 1
I have a Rover 25 in with an MoT fail on the front subframe. It's generally OK just surface rust, but has a small hole roughly 1inch by 1/2 inch in the member under the offside driveshaft.
Is this a permitted area to repair (if the subframe is dropped down and cleaned-up), or is welding subframes universally forbidden? It is within the prescribed 30cm mounting area of the frame (bolts fore and aft of the affected area)
TIA,
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Post by studabear on Feb 27, 2020 19:39:02 GMT 1
I'm sure you wouldbweld it to a good standard. Crack on I say.
Iirc repairs have to make it as strong as the original.
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Post by chippie on Feb 27, 2020 19:52:42 GMT 1
Have the rules changed since the days of welding Mini subframes?
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Post by studabear on Feb 27, 2020 20:46:52 GMT 1
Welded repairs to highly stressed components are not normally acceptable, other than where the component is made up of sections that are welded together. To pass, the repair should appear to be as strong as the original design.
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Post by chippie on Feb 27, 2020 20:58:43 GMT 1
To pass, the repair should appear to be as strong as the original design. Is that what the 'good book' says? Wow....talk about being subjective.... So unless the repair is carried out by a coded welder with the necessary credentials, then there is no way it can be judged to be ' as strong as the original design' unless of course the MoT examiner has access to Dye Pen or X-ray or other means of NDT...🤔 |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 27, 2020 22:50:11 GMT 1
The thing is, as Stu says, I will be dropping this subframe out whatsoever to do a decent job; whether it needs welding or replacing, it will come out onto the floor.
I'm hoping that I will be able to blast it back to clean metal, cut-out all affected material around the hole, and let-in new 14-guage steel (which it appears to have been fabricated from).
From a structural perspective, this hole lies between two fixings up through into the main body pressings for the front engine-bay legs, so the risk of it not performing as-required is very slim indeed. So much so, this repair is hardly necessary at-all from a stiffness point of view.
If it requires a certified welder to make the repair, I have a contact on the Isle that is more than capable of doing the work, if I get the frame up to him from here.
If a secondhand part is available (there must be loads of 25's still knocking around in people's sheds) and it would fit, I might even go for that, but it would have to be very good condition to justify the aggravation of not just sourcing new. Which could be the crux of this issue - whether the component is still held in-stock anywhere, bearing in mind that these cars are out of production for over 15years now, and the part is fairly sizable for holding on a shelf.
What I don't want to do is to make a really decent job of a weld-repair, get the whole frame painted back up and waxed, then find that it isn't MoT-compliant, as this Lady really needs this car back as soon as I can practically turn it around (MoT expires tomorrow evening) as she really likes it, it's the last one she wants, it fits her, she's had it from new, it has 25,400miles on the clock.
What has let this car down is that Rover (I hesitate to call them that, but that's just me being picky!) have clearly "gone to town" with the cost-down, and everything that bolts onto the body frame at the factory has been down-spec'd from the 1990's to have a much poorer paint-finish than it would have originally been designed-with. So everything is surface-rusted, except the body shell, which looks pretty good inside all the sections.
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Post by studabear on Feb 27, 2020 23:21:18 GMT 1
Are you on speaking terms with your local MOT station? Have a word with them.
I would see no issue if it was presented to me for MOT and the repair looked decent.
It's pretty black and white when you read the manual regarding highly stressed components.
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Post by rhyds on Feb 27, 2020 23:48:14 GMT 1
The thing is, as Stu says, I will be dropping this subframe out whatsoever to do a decent job; whether it needs welding or replacing, it will come out onto the floor. I'm hoping that I will be able to blast it back to clean metal, cut-out all affected material around the hole, and let-in new 14-guage steel (which it appears to have been fabricated from). From a structural perspective, this hole lies between two fixings up through into the main body pressings for the front engine-bay legs, so the risk of it not performing as-required is very slim indeed. So much so, this repair is hardly necessary at-all from a stiffness point of view.
If it requires a certified welder to make the repair, I have a contact on the Isle that is more than capable of doing the work, if I get the frame up to him from here. If a secondhand part is available (there must be loads of 25's still knocking around in people's sheds) and it would fit, I might even go for that, but it would have to be very good condition to justify the aggravation of not just sourcing new. Which could be the crux of this issue - whether the component is still held in-stock anywhere, bearing in mind that these cars are out of production for over 15years now, and the part is fairly sizable for holding on a shelf. What I don't want to do is to make a really decent job of a weld-repair, get the whole frame painted back up and waxed, then find that it isn't MoT-compliant, as this Lady really needs this car back as soon as I can practically turn it around (MoT expires tomorrow evening) as she really likes it, it's the last one she wants, it fits her, she's had it from new, it has 25,400miles on the clock. What has let this car down is that Rover (I hesitate to call them that, but that's just me being picky!) have clearly "gone to town" with the cost-down, and everything that bolts onto the body frame at the factory has been down-spec'd from the 1990's to have a much poorer paint-finish than it would have originally been designed-with. So everything is surface-rusted, except the body shell, which looks pretty good inside all the sections.
Is this any good Val? rimmerbros.com/Item--i-KGC000480Also, some more options here. rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID001062Rimmers are very good for MGR bits. |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 27, 2020 23:49:49 GMT 1
Well, I've taken a punt....
If my guess is correct, this car has the same basic subframe as any other 1.4 K-series Rover 25 from the early 2000's. So, in which case, there may well be a nice, shiny-new subframe now winging its way up from Rimmer Bros in Lincolnshire.
We will see, as the outlay has been £300+VAT for this part alone.
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Post by rhyds on Feb 27, 2020 23:52:24 GMT 1
Well, I've taken a punt.... If my guess is correct, this car has the same basic subframe as any other 1.4 K-series Rover 25 from the early 2000's. So, in which case, there may well be a nice, shiny-new subframe now winging its way up from Rimmer Bros in Lincolnshire. We will see, as the outlay has been £300+VAT for this part alone.
I'd imagine its the same, probably as far back as the R3 200 series from 1995. |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 27, 2020 23:52:37 GMT 1
Is this any good Val? rimmerbros.com/Item--i-KGC000480 Yes, I think that is the part I have gone-for. We must have both been looking at it at the same time! Thanks. EDIT : Just confirmed that the part I have clicked is : KGC106510, but it looks pretty close to the subframe I inspected this afternoon. |
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Post by rhyds on Feb 28, 2020 11:48:25 GMT 1
Sounds like a plan. Rimmers get a lot of stick for their pricing, but I can't think of any other firm that would have stocks/access to a new subframe for a car that went out of production 15 years ago!
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Post by valhalla on Feb 28, 2020 23:25:03 GMT 1
Sounds like a plan. Rimmers get a lot of stick for their pricing, but I can't think of any other firm that would have stocks/access to a new subframe for a car that went out of production 15 years ago! This part has a special label that you can use to negotiate the price down (I think) but I didn't use it - the owner is happy to pay the price of the part to keep her car going. I think that it is a fair price for a part that shouldn't be needed all that often.
I feel guilty for not buying-up all the SD1 parts I need from Rimmers, as a good many of them are large panels that must be a b***h to stock, and the prices are clearly pitched to clear these parts. I just know that as soon as I need them, they will be out of stock!
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