They never learn!

[Deleted]

AA recover a Toyota Aygo into our workshop last week (Friday) and the recovery guy very specifically told me the fuel pump had failed. Our other younger tech was with me at the time and must of told the boss what the AA guy said. Our boss being the "Best Parts Cannon" supplier in the North West immediately ordered a new fuel pump. Upon arrival the younger tech found it was the incorrect one, so had to send it back and ordered another. Yesterday the fuel pump arrives and he fitted it. Upon cranking the engine for what sounded like a lifetime I went to the tech and advised him to stop as the engine was never going to start. The boss then puts the scanner on and finds that the immobilizer is not functioning as intended. Now ringing the customer she came round with the spare ignition key and when tried the car started straight away. She then said can you remove the fuel pump and put my original back! No came the reply as the new one is now used.

So then who should be accountable for that mess?  

[huffo]

There’re too many unknown factors to be sure whose fault it is. Probably the boss, but possibly the younger tech.

Did the younger tech tell the boss “it’s the fuel pump”, or did he tell the boss “the man from the AA said it’s the fuel pump”?

Is the younger tech supposed to have enough experience to do the diagnosis by himself? Did the boss instruct him to do any diagnosis before fitting the part? Are there laid down company procedures for who does the diagnosis and when? Should the younger tech have known better?

Do you ever normally order parts “at risk” but then do the diagnosis when the part arrives prior to fitting it? If so, was the younger tech at fault for simply fitting it without confirming the old one was faulty?

How much is a fuel pump versus the cost of the labour of doing proper diagnostics? If the part is cheap, then firing the parts cannon *might* be justified in some circumstances. If/when my old Landy starts to cough and splutter I invariably throw a known-good condenser on before I try anything else. It solves the problem often enough to be worth trying.

In this situation, if I was the boss, I’d hold my hands up and admit the mistake. I’d probably not charge the customer, or perhaps charge a nominal amount for diagnostics.

If the part is pricey, I’d refit the old one and put the “new” one on the shelf for another day. If it’s not, then I’d let the customer keep the new part for free, but I’d keep the old one as a known-good spare.

If I didn’t like the customer and didn’t care about my reputation then I’d charge the customer for the parts and the labour!

It’s not the AA man’s fault, and nor is it the customers.

I don’t think it’s your fault (unless you are supposed to have done the diagnosis or trained/supervised the younger tech better).

[Joepublic]

Did the customer say change the fuel pump?

I'd imagine the pump costs similar to a scan £35 - £40?

Then I'd sell her a new coded key.

[trickydicky]

Always verify the customer complaint and do your own diagnosis

I'm a roadside patrol and we get to see the other side when garages have misdiagnosed faults, it's also difficult to guess exactly what the AA patrol did and told the customer without seeing the report

Your boss should have assigned someone to scan the car and run tests on the fuel pump prior to ordering any parts

If the boss doesn't value fault finding it's time to move on

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2019 13:03:23 GMT 1 @hybrid said:

AA recover a Toyota Aygo into our workshop last week (Friday) and the recovery guy very specifically told me the fuel pump had failed. Our other younger tech was with me at the time and must of told the boss what the AA guy said. Our boss being the "Best Parts Cannon" supplier in the North West immediately ordered a new fuel pump. Upon arrival the younger tech found it was the incorrect one, so had to send it back and ordered another. Yesterday the fuel pump arrives and he fitted it. Upon cranking the engine for what sounded like a lifetime I went to the tech and advised him to stop as the engine was never going to start. The boss then puts the scanner on and finds that the immobilizer is not functioning as intended. Now ringing the customer she came round with the spare ignition key and when tried the car started straight away. She then said can you remove the fuel pump and put my original back! No came the reply as the new one is now used.

So then who should be accountable for that mess?  

See bold print above

Nov 20, 2019 13:44:13 GMT 1 huffo said:

There’re too many unknown factors to be sure whose fault it is. Probably the boss, but possibly the younger tech.

Did the younger tech tell the boss “it’s the fuel pump”, or did he tell the boss “the man from the AA said it’s the fuel pump”?

Is the younger tech supposed to have enough experience to do the diagnosis by himself? Did the boss instruct him to do any diagnosis before fitting the part? Are there laid down company procedures for who does the diagnosis and when? Should the younger tech have known better?

Do you ever normally order parts “at risk” but then do the diagnosis when the part arrives prior to fitting it? If so, was the younger tech at fault for simply fitting it without confirming the old one was faulty?

How much is a fuel pump versus the cost of the labour of doing proper diagnostics? If the part is cheap, then firing the parts cannon *might* be justified in some circumstances. If/when my old Landy starts to cough and splutter I invariably throw a known-good condenser on before I try anything else. It solves the problem often enough to be worth trying.

In this situation, if I was the boss, I’d hold my hands up and admit the mistake. I’d probably not charge the customer, or perhaps charge a nominal amount for diagnostics.

If the part is pricey, I’d refit the old one and put the “new” one on the shelf for another day. If it’s not, then I’d let the customer keep the new part for free, but I’d keep the old one as a known-good spare.

If I didn’t like the customer and didn’t care about my reputation then I’d charge the customer for the parts and the labour!

It’s not the AA man’s fault, and nor is it the customers.

I don’t think it’s your fault (unless you are supposed to have done the diagnosis or trained/supervised the younger tech better).

On that note I'm not convinced. The younger tech has only told or given the boss the AA mans report. Normally when I've read these reports the AA patrol man enters his diagnosis what he has concluded. The younger tech did not carryout any diagnosis to this car, he would have just followed the instructions of the boss. 

Nov 20, 2019 13:57:53 GMT 1 Joepublic said:

Did the customer say change the fuel pump?

I'd imagine the pump costs similar to a scan £35 - £40?

Then I'd sell her a new coded key.

I have no idea whether the customer would have agreed or not to the changing of the pump, however, my understanding tells me that if the boss tells the customer the AA said the fuel pump has failed and gives the customer a price, my understanding tells me that the customer would have authorised the repair based on advice given from the garage. 

Nov 20, 2019 14:24:04 GMT 1 trickydicky said:

Always verify the customer complaint and do your own diagnosis

I'm a roadside patrol and we get to see the other side when garages have misdiagnosed faults, it's also difficult to guess exactly what the AA patrol did and told the customer without seeing the report

Your boss should have assigned someone to scan the car and run tests on the fuel pump prior to ordering any parts

If the boss doesn't value fault finding it's time to move on

That is were it all falls apart in the real world, the customer complaint was not verified. The parts cannon was fired. It seems in the real world nowadays with the lack of professional training and manufacturer repair instructions that most people get diagnostics incorrect on a daily basis, which does not help the customer at all, and like a court judge recently said to a garage defendant, you are a professional and should behave like one because modern cars are all very dangerous. As it was on this occasion the pump on the aftermarket can be purchased for around £20 plus vat so will not break the bank, but the customers cars been off the road since last Friday only having a faulty key!

[upkeep]

Wrong diagnosis the customer goes on the advice given as you are the perceved experts.. suck it up buttercup.

[remmington]

I would not be billing the customer...

I would not have taken the word of the recovery driver...

I would not have ordered a fuel pump unless the old one would not run when powered up off the car...


Have you sold her a key yet?

[Dragon]

I'm speechless

[valhalla]

Pure and simple; No fix, no fee.

That is the promise I give to any of my customers. They come to me because I don't do "the parts cannon", I just do the proper diagnosis "Right First Time" - however long it takes. If I make a mistake, it is 100% at my own cost. I sleep easily at night because I don't have a guilty conscience of all the wrong parts I have fitted and then re-charged to the customer under some sort of pretence that they were always going to be needed anyway. In a word, honesty.

Your boss paid for the fuel pump as soon as that car rolled off the back of the AA truck, and that is now his cross to bear. I haveno sympathy for him or his garage.

[trickydicky]

I dont know about AA, but on an RAC customer assistance report form it states something like:

"Suspected roadside diagnosis only, your garage needs to verify the fault before replacing any components"

Dont assume all roadside patrols know what they are talking about, there are some blaggers, same as garages 😡

[valhalla]

A roadside diagnosis is very difficult to get right. For a start, the environment is all wrong; the car is stuck by the side of a road, the tools are back at base, it's cold, it's wet, and the irate customer is just by your shoulder.......

Hence I always ignore whatever diagnosis comes with any job. It's my task to sort-out what is wrong with the car, and that starts by listening to the customer, and piecing things together from there. 9 times out 10, the fault becomes apparent as soon as you find-out what was going-on when the car stopped. Then again, the other 10% can be a little trickier.....

[remmington]

The whole sorry tale - sort of lacks any respect to the process (and the customer).

The car lands as a non runner - (you have captured audience).

1. Speak to the customer - find out how it broke down.

2. Tell customer what the intial costs will be - what you are gonna be doing and why.

3. Do it...

4. Then contact the customer again - with your results.

5. If you have no results - ask for more labour.

6. If you have results - Quote the repair out - stating any risks involved.

7. Ennact repair and road test.

8. Bill customer.

9. Customer collects working car - pays bill.

10. You count the money...

[Rhubarb]

Your garage is at fault.

You don't fit parts on someone else's opinion.

A good Boss of mine from many years ago taught me a good lesson,"Never assume"

[Deleted]

Today I was asked to put a new heater matrix in an R57 MINI. During the same conversation I said I'd never fitted them before and I was advised they were not too bad for fitting. The boss then told me to check it if I was unsure. I checked the cooling system reservoir level and found low water/coolant level so I topped it up and ran the engine at idle to help circulate the water/coolant, followed by refitting the reservoir cap and running the engine at 2500 K revs to get the engine hot and circulate the coolant. I was told by the boss that the heater matrix had been checked (by our garage) and that one hose was cool while the other was warm, saying that the matrix was blocked he said?

After running the engine to normal temp (or at least the top hose gave that impression) I felt the heater hoses by hand and both were hot. The heater was blowing hot air into the passenger compartment. At this point I said to the boss that I was reasonably confident that nothing was wrong with the heater matrix and I did not think it had a blockage. Raising the ramp while the engine was at fast idle I checked the lower radiator hose temperature which was cool. The top hose to the stat was hot. I advised the boss that in my view I thought the cooling system either had a defective thermostat or a cooling system circulation problem was present, and I based that idea on the evidence that suggested I had intermittent hot water through the heater matrix. I also pointed out after the boss telling me that our garage had previously fitted a thermostat that the cooling system might have trapped air in the system, where I was then advised that air in the cooling system would not cause a problem?

I did a little more research and found that these engines cooling systems water pumps pulleys can fail. This was an interesting find because the behavior of the coolant circulation being hot and then intermittently cooling off before returning hot tells me that the coolant pump might be the cause of the problem! I did a visual inspection of the water pump pulley the best I could through the wheel arch and admittedly cannot see a problem with the pulley, but if the belt were slipping that would cause my concerns. 

So in conclusion I can only say one or more of the following could be the areas to look at;

• Coolant pump/pulley
• Air lock
• thermotat

Tomorrow is another day and when I get there I can't wait to go home.