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Post by valhalla on Apr 14, 2016 23:50:08 GMT 1
Part of my playtime today was to finally (try to) swap over the incontinent steering rack on the V70. With a 2-post ramp, this should have been a couple of hours, tops, but unfortunately fate was to strike...
The fluid return pipe union to the pinion housing was seized solid, despite pre-soaking and a little bit of gentle tapping to break any corrosion. The unions on these are made of an alloy metal, and the rack is not much better. Despite going at it gently and progressively, it just would not budge. The union was so soft, my best spanners were just rounding-off the flats, so out came the Stilsons (the little ones) which did get about 1/3-flat slight budge before snapping half the nut off flush with the pinion face. "Oh dear, what a shame I thought," (whilst simultaneously turning the air blue), "I do seem to have said goodbye to the surcharge on this unit, never mind finding a source of a new return line for a Ph.1 V70".
Finally found a factors in Germany that has a return line in-stock (one fortunate side-effect of having worked in the German language earlier in my career) which is hopefully on the way tomorrow. It took an hour and a half to get that one sorted....
Now, has anyone got any experience of separating cheese-like alloy male unions from cheese-like alloy housings? I have one half of the drive-form left, plus the old return pipe (aluminium, I believe) which rotates freely under the clamping face of the union (sealed by a flouroelastomer O-ring). I don't want to heat any of this, if I can help it, because I don't know what the materials are going to do. What I do know is that there must have been at-least 40Nm on the union when it shattered, which means the threads are pretty damn locked!
New rack goes in tomorrow morning, then it's a towing pole to shift the car out until I can pipe it up.
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,966
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Post by remmington on Apr 15, 2016 20:52:55 GMT 1
Part of my playtime today was to finally (try to) swap over the incontinent steering rack on the V70. With a 2-post ramp, this should have been a couple of hours, tops, but unfortunately fate was to strike... The fluid return pipe union to the pinion housing was seized solid, despite pre-soaking and a little bit of gentle tapping to break any corrosion. The unions on these are made of an alloy metal, and the rack is not much better. Despite going at it gently and progressively, it just would not budge. The union was so soft, my best spanners were just rounding-off the flats, so out came the Stilsons (the little ones) which did get about 1/3-flat slight budge before snapping half the nut off flush with the pinion face. "Oh dear, what a shame I thought," (whilst simultaneously turning the air blue), "I do seem to have said goodbye to the surcharge on this unit, never mind finding a source of a new return line for a Ph.1 V70". Finally found a factors in Germany that has a return line in-stock (one fortunate side-effect of having worked in the German language earlier in my career) which is hopefully on the way tomorrow. It took an hour and a half to get that one sorted.... Now, has anyone got any experience of separating cheese-like alloy male unions from cheese-like alloy housings? I have one half of the drive-form left, plus the old return pipe (aluminium, I believe) which rotates freely under the clamping face of the union (sealed by a flouroelastomer O-ring). I don't want to heat any of this, if I can help it, because I don't know what the materials are going to do. What I do know is that there must have been at-least 40Nm on the union when it shattered, which means the threads are pretty damn locked! New rack goes in tomorrow morning, then it's a towing pole to shift the car out until I can pipe it up. I have felt your pain, it was a W reg petrol silver PH2 V70. I remember it well, I sheared the same union as you did twice! The customer turned up with a used rack, with a pipe still attached but cut off, I snapped this one. Then snapped the one on the car. I then got an exchange rack and new pipe ex the dealers. From memory I did not put too much force on both unions before they gave way. I don't think I got to stilsons. I managed to break them with a flare nut spanner. |
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Post by valhalla on Apr 15, 2016 22:34:14 GMT 1
Yes, if I get a chance I'll take a picture. This is definitely one reason why I don't do this job for paying (or otherwise....) customers without a disclaimer!
Until the new pipe assembly comes, I'm not even entertaining the idea of sending the old rack back, as there is just an outside chance I could use the bits I've got to come up with something - effectively turn a steel union piece, slit it into two pieces, then glue/weld it back together around the pipe end.
I have done this job on two separate V70 Ph.1 diesels, which are tighter to access, but neither seized this union, so it must be something about the specific hose assembly on the petrols.
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,966
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Post by remmington on Apr 16, 2016 8:05:46 GMT 1
Quoted jobs with surcharged parts.
Not your fault, the union broke.
You are going to bill him for the extra pipe, I would bill him for the surcharge.
Any extra labour you use trying to get the broken union out, will not be chargeable!
The garage trade and quotes with surcharges refunds built into to the quote do not work all the while.
If you charge the customer the surcharge you loose the customer, if you don't charge the customer you loose the money!
It is unlikely you will get credited for exchange rack with a broken seized pipe fitting in it. Dead core they cannot use again is not worth anything.
You can chance it, but by the time you know you will not get the refund, the customer will have paid for the repair and have taken the car.
Two layer ball park quotes "it will be from £this to £this, if the old exchange rack is serviceable".
Your supplier has warned you, I bet the rack came with bit of paper saying what is acceptable for exchange and what is not. You just needed to pass that info on to your customer at the point you quoted the job out.
I have been caught out with this over the years, loads of times.
Back to base thought process. If there is a problem with the customers car, it is the customers problem not the garage.
If your name is on the logbook, the extra costs are yours. If you name is over the garage door, you write the bill out and earn out of the extra costs.
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Post by valhalla on Apr 17, 2016 21:50:24 GMT 1
The tack that I'm intending to take with this one (bearing in mind this is my own car, so I'm not having to bother with all the "Spanish Inquisition" from any customer  ) is that I will wait for the new hose to turn-up, make sure it fits and plumbs the car in a suitable manner to get the thing running again without leaking, then speak with the supplier of the rack; There are two options - 1) the rack is important enough to the supplier to give me some surcharge back, enough to cover the courier charges, and therefore they can have it as it is, or 2) they don't want it, in which case I'll keep it for spares, and maybe have a fiddle around to see if I can get a repair kit for the seals that have burst. This is an SMI rack from France, most recons are TRW (including the one I have) and therefore I've struggled to find a seal kit for SMI. If there was a seal kit for this unit, that would have been my first choice, as it was working smoothly until the fluid escaped through the gaiters! |
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Post by valhalla on Apr 30, 2016 22:57:12 GMT 1
I've sent the supplier a couple of photos, to see if it's worth sending the whole lot back, but going by the phone conversation this week, I might be better off keeping it...... Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by Karl on May 1, 2016 8:30:51 GMT 1
I know it's too late now , but I wonder if a little heat would have helped
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Post by valhalla on May 1, 2016 19:37:44 GMT 1
I know it's too late now , but I wonder if a little heat would have helped I'm not sure.. If I had realised that I could get the rack + hose out from the wheelarch just by dropping the subrame down a bit further than usual (which is how I got this lot out) then I think I would have done that before trying to move the union. Note to self in future is to just undo the LP return hose at the reservoir for any V70 job like this. Moving the union would have been much easier done on the floor than under the car, where another certain little feature comes to play..........the foil wrap on the hose next to the union itself is there for the petrol fuel lines - so heating in-situ becomes more tricky! I just have the feeling that penetrant oil and vibration would have been the way forward on this job, with the luxury of it being on the floor, because the joint is likely to be like sand in a serated thread - that seems to be the way these things corrode together. I have had other union nuts like this in the past that look like they have had the thread machined by a knurling wheel, but all I was seeing was the effects of old age. |
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Post by valhalla on May 12, 2016 20:20:00 GMT 1
Well, never heard anything back from the rack supplier, so I can take this as a definite "Surcharge?Stick it, sunshine!" |
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) is that I will wait for the new hose to turn-up, make sure it fits and plumbs the car in a suitable manner to get the thing running again without leaking, then speak with the supplier of the rack;