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Post by critch on Jan 7, 2014 11:56:52 GMT 1
Got. 207. 1.6 petrol on 57 pate in
Customer complaint sluggish an using lots of fuel he says he's getting. 220 from a full tank.
Doesn't want his car back until it's sorted haha
It's already had a rear lambda sensor fitted an spark middle December no change
Looked at it an long term fuel trim maxed out at 28 short term was on 4/5 no change with revs on the long term
Short only moves slightly into negatives an back to above 0 at. 3000rpm
Manifold pressure showing as 34/35 kpa idle
23kpa 3000rpm
Cars seemed to drive fine
Fault codes where
P0172 mixture. (Bank 1) rich
P2191 O2 sensor ( bank1 sensor 1) signal on lean stop
Cleared codes and fuel trims went to 4.7 long an 0 short after 50 mile test drive
So sent foreman home last night in it 100 mile round trip
Long term on 14. .3 short in zero same again no change in long term with revs
Front O2 seems to be reading ok rear O2 reading 0.12 ish at does rise an fall on a snap throttle
No faults codes now and that. 150 ish miles
Emissions show
Co - 0.01
Hc - 2Ppm
Lambda - 1.030 (let revs off early and picked back up again so possibly reason there a bit high?)
Anyone know if there's any sort of software issue or any common faults that maybe problem
Will get back on it in a day or two for further tests
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Post by Noberator on Jan 7, 2014 14:37:09 GMT 1
Have you had a look at the MAP sensor?  An output that enables the ECM to sense a manifold pressure which is less than normal (high vacuum) can drive the system lean. Also examine the wiring harness to check whether there is any damage. An excessively low fuel pressure will make the system run lean. Is this the EP6DT engine? If so check the timings ok because the camshaft pulleys on these engines are not secured with a keyway and are prone to slipping and giving this fault code. The last one may or may not be relevant dependent on engine.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 14:39:05 GMT 1
Without reading further than its a Peugeot guzzling fuel I'd stick a used 02 and CTS in then block his number  . |
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Post by Noberator on Jan 7, 2014 14:43:28 GMT 1
Without reading further than its a Peugeot guzzling fuel I'd stick a used 02 and CTS in then block his number .  |
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Post by critch on Jan 7, 2014 19:33:08 GMT 1
Have you had a look at the MAP sensor? An output that enables the ECM to sense a manifold pressure which is less than normal (high vacuum) can drive the system lean. Also examine the wiring harness to check whether there is any damage. An excessively low fuel pressure will make the system run lean. Is this the EP6DT engine? If so check the timings ok because the camshaft pulleys on these engines are not secured with a keyway and are prone to slipping and giving this fault code. The last one may or may not be relevant dependent on engine. Map sensor appears to be ok manifold pressure is 101 kpa key on engine off Then as said. 35kpa idle Haven't actually tapped into fuel pressure but on live data it shows ok Took rocker cover off and chain is tight haven't got timing tool for that engine though Checked map wiring an all seemed ok can't remember voltages off the top of my head though |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 22:25:20 GMT 1
Got. 207. 1.6 petrol on 57 pate in Customer complaint sluggish an using lots of fuel he says he's getting. 220 from a full tank. Doesn't want his car back until it's sorted haha It's already had a rear lambda sensor fitted an spark middle December no change Looked at it an long term fuel trim maxed out at 28 short term was on 4/5 no change with revs on the long term Short only moves slightly into negatives an back to above 0 at. 3000rpm Manifold pressure showing as 34/35 kpa idle 23kpa 3000rpm Cars seemed to drive fine Fault codes where P0172 mixture. (Bank 1) rich P2191 O2 sensor ( bank1 sensor 1) signal on lean stop Cleared codes and fuel trims went to 4.7 long an 0 short after 50 mile test drive So sent foreman home last night in it 100 mile round trip Long term on 14. .3 short in zero same again no change in long term with revs Front O2 seems to be reading ok rear O2 reading 0.12 ish at does rise an fall on a snap throttle No faults codes now and that. 150 ish miles Emissions show Co - 0.01 Hc - 2Ppm Lambda - 1.030 (let revs off early and picked back up again so possibly reason there a bit high?) Anyone know if there's any sort of software issue or any common faults that maybe problem Will get back on it in a day or two for further tests Critch the system is continuing to lean off, if you drove it further i think you would see it , you reset the fuel map , it will eventualy revert to limp, the crank sprocket is the weak point as you probably know ! |
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Post by critch on Jan 7, 2014 22:35:02 GMT 1
Got. 207. 1.6 petrol on 57 pate in Customer complaint sluggish an using lots of fuel he says he's getting. 220 from a full tank. Doesn't want his car back until it's sorted haha It's already had a rear lambda sensor fitted an spark middle December no change Looked at it an long term fuel trim maxed out at 28 short term was on 4/5 no change with revs on the long term Short only moves slightly into negatives an back to above 0 at. 3000rpm Manifold pressure showing as 34/35 kpa idle 23kpa 3000rpm Cars seemed to drive fine Fault codes where P0172 mixture. (Bank 1) rich P2191 O2 sensor ( bank1 sensor 1) signal on lean stop Cleared codes and fuel trims went to 4.7 long an 0 short after 50 mile test drive So sent foreman home last night in it 100 mile round trip Long term on 14. .3 short in zero same again no change in long term with revs Front O2 seems to be reading ok rear O2 reading 0.12 ish at does rise an fall on a snap throttle No faults codes now and that. 150 ish miles Emissions show Co - 0.01 Hc - 2Ppm Lambda - 1.030 (let revs off early and picked back up again so possibly reason there a bit high?) Anyone know if there's any sort of software issue or any common faults that maybe problem Will get back on it in a day or two for further tests Critch the system is continuing to lean off, if you drove it further i think you would see it , you reset the fuel map , it will eventualy revert to limp, the crank sprocket is the weak point as you probably know ! Yeah mate in said It will lean out more its second time it's been in first time I had real quick look and just stuck a O2 sensor on it And it came in maxed out on the fuel trims again I've been told that the cam pulley where weak not crank Will get a look tomorrow Been told today possible software change on ECM for running issue do you know anything about it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 22:51:44 GMT 1
Critch the system is continuing to lean off, if you drove it further i think you would see it , you reset the fuel map , it will eventualy revert to limp, the crank sprocket is the weak point as you probably know ! Yeah mate in said It will lean out more its second time it's been in first time I had real quick look and just stuck a O2 sensor on it And it came in maxed out on the fuel trims again I've been told that the cam pulley where weak not crank Will get a look tomorrow Been told today possible software change on ECM for running issue do you know anything about it? The crank pulley is clamped on to a crank hub and they were faulty , they were upgraded later, its not an easy rectification nor cheap, a good few tools needed too, the software updates were not for this far as i know  ? |
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Post by critch on Jan 7, 2014 23:09:36 GMT 1
Yeah mate in said It will lean out more its second time it's been in first time I had real quick look and just stuck a O2 sensor on it And it came in maxed out on the fuel trims again I've been told that the cam pulley where weak not crank Will get a look tomorrow Been told today possible software change on ECM for running issue do you know anything about it? The crank pulley is clamped on to a crank hub and they were faulty , they were upgraded later, its not an easy rectification nor cheap, a good few tools needed too, the software updates were not for this far as i know ? Is there anything obvious to look out for on the crank without getting the tooling? Is it something that's worth just passing on to the dealer/ specialist or are the tools reasonably priced? |
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Post by Noberator on Jan 8, 2014 0:35:47 GMT 1
The crank pulley is clamped on to a crank hub and they were faulty , they were upgraded later, its not an easy rectification nor cheap, a good few tools needed too, the software updates were not for this far as i know ? Is there anything obvious to look out for on the crank without getting the tooling? Is it something that's worth just passing on to the dealer/ specialist or are the tools reasonably priced? This is a common fault I believe and before the modified cam bolts were fitted to these engines. It is a very invovled procedure as it includes measuring the chain at a set temp making sure the variable hubs are set at zero etc so I would advise you take it too a person who knows the EP engines or too a decent Pugeot dealer. The reason you dont see a sync fault is the inlet or exhaust cam that has slipped only does so very slightly but not enough to show up as sync problem but enough that the mixture goes out of what the ECU has regulated for so brings up a mixture fault. Peugeot did release a engine ECU download at the beging to increase the mixture band but proved unsuccessful. |
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Post by critch on Jan 8, 2014 0:43:06 GMT 1
Is there anything obvious to look out for on the crank without getting the tooling? Is it something that's worth just passing on to the dealer/ specialist or are the tools reasonably priced? This is a common fault I believe and before the modified cam bolts were fitted to these engines. It is a very invovled procedure as it includes measuring the chain at a set temp making sure the variable hubs are set at zero etc so I would advise you take it too a person who knows the EP engines or too a decent Pugeot dealer. The reason you dont see a sync fault is the inlet or exhaust cam that has slipped only does so very slightly but not enough to show up as sync problem but enough that the mixture goes out of what the ECU has regulated for so brings up a mixture fault. Peugeot did release a engine ECU download at the beging to increase the mixture band but proved unsuccessful. Awesome cheers Will get it booked into peugeot to get that checked out and sorted then They where meant to be getting someone in to do a software flash but seems like that's going to be a wasted expense Thanks for all the advise guys Glad I wasn't loosing the plot or missing an obvious fault Adam |
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Post by Noberator on Jan 8, 2014 1:06:11 GMT 1
This is a common fault I believe and before the modified cam bolts were fitted to these engines. It is a very invovled procedure as it includes measuring the chain at a set temp making sure the variable hubs are set at zero etc so I would advise you take it too a person who knows the EP engines or too a decent Pugeot dealer. The reason you dont see a sync fault is the inlet or exhaust cam that has slipped only does so very slightly but not enough to show up as sync problem but enough that the mixture goes out of what the ECU has regulated for so brings up a mixture fault. Peugeot did release a engine ECU download at the beging to increase the mixture band but proved unsuccessful. Awesome cheers They where meant to be getting someone in to do a software flash but seems like that's going to be a wasted expense Thanks for all the advise guys Glad I wasn't loosing the plot or missing an obvious fault Adam If my prognosis is correct just warn the owner this isn't a cheap fix.   An Indy might be better their call. |
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Post by critch on Jan 8, 2014 1:24:50 GMT 1
Awesome cheers They where meant to be getting someone in to do a software flash but seems like that's going to be a wasted expense Thanks for all the advise guys Glad I wasn't loosing the plot or missing an obvious fault Adam If my prognosis is correct just warn the owner this isn't a cheap fix. An Indy might be better their call. Its a customer return only had car a few weeks so bill is on work so am not worried haha I don't get paid bonus and am leaving soon so even less botherd how much it costs haha More for me own learning wanted to get to bottom of it |
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Post by Noberator on Jan 8, 2014 1:29:38 GMT 1
If my prognosis is correct just warn the owner this isn't a cheap fix. An Indy might be better their call. Its a customer return only had car a few weeks so bill is on work so am not worried haha I don't get paid bonus and am leaving soon so even less botherd how much it costs haha More for me own learning wanted to get to bottom of it |
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Post by critch on Jan 8, 2014 17:58:31 GMT 1
Well it's confirmed its getting chain
They paid someone to try change software and fault still there
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An output that enables the ECM to sense a manifold pressure which is less than normal (high vacuum) can drive the system lean.
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An Indy might be better their call.