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Post by valhalla on Nov 15, 2022 22:27:59 GMT 1
Your figures point to trouble with one injector, but it's going to take a bit more work to find which one.
The cylinder balancer function on this engine is utter rubbish, one of the worst every pushed out into the public field, so you are seeing one injector misbehaving (possibly high, but more likely low).
The symptoms you describe above are exactly what I saw a while back with the same configuration, and I have to say......even when fixed, I was in two minds whether to let the owner have his car back, as the cylinder balance at 1500rpm was attrocious. The thing was, the car was in for something else, broken-down as usual, and I couldn't really "go to town" to sort this out for the poor owner.
That car has now been sold, almost immediately after I fixed it, as the owner could not take any more of its "fun and games", and was begging me to swap my old Skoda for this thing - I refused, as I didn't want that much trouble either. I would strongly recommend that your family have this thing fixed, then flog it for something better, as that's the only way to sort these out.......  |
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Post by dooroy on Nov 16, 2022 0:45:35 GMT 1
Thanks for reply - from reading up and talking to other owners I had come to the conclusion you advised (nice to be validated by a pro)  . They can't afford to be spending money on this and if I can get it starting reasonably well I want them to sell it immediately. Car is in perfect condition but not worth the hassle and expense - and just waiting for the next problem. A friend in the trade has a few injectors which I can have if it helps. Going by the figures which injector(s) would be causing problems ? And as if to make matters worse - I thought I detected a sound which to me suggested DMF problems  |
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Post by valhalla on Nov 16, 2022 22:16:43 GMT 1
If a gun was put to my head, I would go for cylinder number 3 injector, as it shows the highest additive injection quantity, but this is a difficult call to make.
Assuming that the injectors are all coded correctly, and that the new/replacement injector on cyl_3 was able to be coded-in, then it might be enough to punt this one out the door - you would have to reassess after a short test-drive and warm-up, and see where the cylinder balance figures then lay. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't 2x failing injectors, but sometimes you can just get lucky, and having got one really dodgy injector off the common-rail, the rest of the injectors balance-out better (wave-dynamics in the rail).
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Post by Rhubarb on Nov 16, 2022 23:22:23 GMT 1
Also have a look around the injectors for any sign of black death and listen for any blowing. I'm sure you could cobble something together to do a leak off test too. If the DMF is rattling that would account for what seems/feels like a misfire. You can also feel a failing DMF through the clutch pedal. One thing I have done is with a decent scanner re-code the injectors, does the job to get shot of it. But to be honest, it's not a nice time of year to be messing about with someone elses problem, without the right gear and on the driveway. The choice is yours as to how involved you want to get  |
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Post by dooroy on Nov 17, 2022 0:52:32 GMT 1
Thanks for replies. As I said this is bro-in-laws car and at this point I just want to get it going well enough to sell. He was given it by his son who put it through the NCT before handing it over - and I had done some work on brakes , suspension etc to have it right for the new owner. And he only has it about 6 mths - but time to get rid of it. I will try changing injector 3 - the friend who offered me the injectors will be able to code it in also. Would a leak off test be advisable ? No sign of any blowing etc around injectors. And not sure that DMF is rattling - could be getting paranoid at this stage  Will post back on how it goes. |
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Post by Rhubarb on Nov 17, 2022 7:52:31 GMT 1
Thanks for replies. As I said this is bro-in-laws car and at this point I just want to get it going well enough to sell. He was given it by his son who put it through the NCT before handing it over - and I had done some work on brakes , suspension etc to have it right for the new owner. And he only has it about 6 mths - but time to get rid of it. I will try changing injector 3 - the friend who offered me the injectors will be able to code it in also. Would a leak off test be advisable ? No sign of any blowing etc around injectors. And not sure that DMF is rattling - could be getting paranoid at this stage Will post back on how it goes. Your friend who could code in the injectors: Could he not check the live data of the injectors with his scanner? Yes a leak off test would see which injectors are faulty, without playing parts darts! |
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Post by remmington on Nov 17, 2022 15:28:35 GMT 1
Thanks for replies. As I said this is bro-in-laws car and at this point I just want to get it going well enough to sell. He was given it by his son who put it through the NCT before handing it over - and I had done some work on brakes , suspension etc to have it right for the new owner. And he only has it about 6 mths - but time to get rid of it. I will try changing injector 3 - the friend who offered me the injectors will be able to code it in also. Would a leak off test be advisable ? No sign of any blowing etc around injectors. And not sure that DMF is rattling - could be getting paranoid at this stage Will post back on how it goes. Your friend who could code in the injectors: Could he not check the live data of the injectors with his scanner? Yes a leak off test would see which injectors are faulty, without playing parts darts! I always go for: Physical leak off testing with bottles or inductive amp clamp/scope for coil amp pull. I don't trust negative/postive injector correlation values off a scanner. I assume these numbers are just calculated from "knock sensor vs cam pulse for timing and voltage drop from injector drivers" = clever quess work. But if you do go the scanner route - minus numbers good - plus numbers bad (or so they reckon!) |
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Post by givusaclue on Nov 17, 2022 17:44:46 GMT 1
Mondeo still not right. Bro-in-law and his wife got Covid car got a break. Checked cam sensor wiring to ECU and all was OK there. Have the loan of a scanner (from another DIYer) and would appreciate the significance of the following under the heading cylinder contribution /balance : Cyl 1 : 1.17 Cyl 2 : 0.74 Cyl 3 : 1.38 Cyl 4 : 0.61. When engine is idling - could this point to a problem with the injectors? Fuel rail pressure when at rest is 430kPa - immediately goes to 30K or so when cranked. There is a noticeable miss at around 1500 rpm. Any advice/opinions appreciated - even if it's to forget about it. are you sure it's a miss? not beyond the realms of possibility for an semi siezed out of balance dual mass flywheel either |
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Post by remmington on Nov 17, 2022 19:47:43 GMT 1
Mondeo still not right. Bro-in-law and his wife got Covid car got a break. Checked cam sensor wiring to ECU and all was OK there. Have the loan of a scanner (from another DIYer) and would appreciate the significance of the following under the heading cylinder contribution /balance : Cyl 1 : 1.17 Cyl 2 : 0.74 Cyl 3 : 1.38 Cyl 4 : 0.61. When engine is idling - could this point to a problem with the injectors? Fuel rail pressure when at rest is 430kPa - immediately goes to 30K or so when cranked. There is a noticeable miss at around 1500 rpm. Any advice/opinions appreciated - even if it's to forget about it. are you sure it's a miss? not beyond the realms of possibility for an semi siezed out of balance dual mass flywheel either Failed Aux belt tensioner and pulleys will make these "jump about" |
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Post by valhalla on Nov 18, 2022 0:17:52 GMT 1
are you sure it's a miss? not beyond the realms of possibility for an semi siezed out of balance dual mass flywheel either Failed Aux belt tensioner and pulleys will make these "jump about" Odd to see two adjacent cylinders in firing-order being caused by torsional vibrations - my first thought here as well! Hence I suggested that the injector/s is/are failing, as that would be more likely to be stalling the engine on every 2nd revolution.
I guess it depends if the numbers above are, in-fact, slowing shifting from cylinder to cylinder. If so, could well be something in the rotating equipment to cause it. But.....to be frank.....the Ford cyl balance function is such a steaming pile of ****, without a leak-off test across all four injectors in parallel, it's a tough call to make. I think this is why the old sages always go for leak-off tests on Ford's, as you cannot really rely upon the PCM to give you any data worth actioning.
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Post by dooroy on Dec 13, 2022 20:36:30 GMT 1
Just to update on the Mondeo. I took it to my friend's garage and he scanned it - he found he could not communicate with the EGR but was OK with everything else. So I brought it home and removed EGR with intention of getting a new one - the one that was there had been fitted second hand about 2 yrs ago. When I removed the EGR I discovered that the pin ( with a small bearing on either end and helps to operate the valve) was broken - and there were score marks on the 'old' EGR which could have been caused by the broken part of the pin. Went online and found the 'lifting pin kit' which I ordered. When it arrived I fitted the new pin ( took nearly an hour to get the second circlip in place and the freezing temps didn't help  ). Then fitted the new EGR which I had got from motor factors and started the car. It started almost immediately and continued running ( to my delight and relief) Has been starting perfectly since - every morning coated in frost. Owner says the flat spot when accelerating has gone. So all well - and thanks again for help |
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