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Post by givusaclue on May 22, 2022 14:17:52 GMT 1
Got this one in from another garage that’s been giving them a hard time
None starter
No fault codes at all
Good fuel pressure
On live data radiator outlet temperature pid shows 90’ when ambient is more like 18-19’
Overheat light on dash flashing mostly & bleeping
Dpf backpressure looks ok
Good battery
Had 4 replacement injectors correctly coded & tried a imv in the pump (previous to me seeing it) not seen it smoking when cranking, my picoscope has died & is enroute to be repaired.
Belt timing has been pegged & verified.
Going to do a physical compression test tomorrow unless I can borrow a pico & use my wpx500. May try in cylinder pressure capture if anyone know later how to read that (wondering if the lobes or gears may have shifted slightly) as I’ve never done that yet.
Any other good ideas?
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Post by chippie on May 22, 2022 16:18:51 GMT 1
Will it start on a sniff of ezistart?
Sounds similar to the issue I had with my Passat….it did start eventually after walking away from it…
Booked in to dealer who changed the battery after conducting non conclusive tests….
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Post by givusaclue on May 22, 2022 17:28:04 GMT 1
Will it start on a sniff of ezistart? Sounds similar to the issue I had with my Passat….it did start eventually after walking away from it… Booked in to dealer who changed the battery after conducting non conclusive tests…. Probably will, under it’s own steam it’s not started in about 6 months I’m told, the battery tests good & seems a good cranking speed, hopefully I can borrow a scope & check if the injectors are drawing current for a start |
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Post by wightdiag on May 22, 2022 17:28:53 GMT 1
Well that's odd for a start. What scan tool are you using?
1) have a light/warning but no codes 2) why flash and "overheat" light at 90C ? Check it's not a substituted value by looking at it in OBD2.
Outside of that can you see the rpm on live data/tacho?
Oh and remmington has a neat trick, stick a small compass next to the injectors, it will go wild if they are actuating. Might have to raid the xmas crackers !
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Post by Rhubarb on May 22, 2022 19:36:17 GMT 1
Ecu off it for testing methinks  |
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Post by remmington on May 22, 2022 20:19:18 GMT 1
Got this one in from another garage that’s been giving them a hard time None starter No fault codes at all Good fuel pressure On live data radiator outlet temperature pid shows 90’ when ambient is more like 18-19’ Overheat light on dash flashing mostly & bleeping Dpf backpressure looks ok Good battery Had 4 replacement injectors correctly coded & tried a imv in the pump (previous to me seeing it) not seen it smoking when cranking, my picoscope has died & is enroute to be repaired. Belt timing has been pegged & verified. Going to do a physical compression test tomorrow unless I can borrow a pico & use my wpx500. May try in cylinder pressure capture if anyone know later how to read that (wondering if the lobes or gears may have shifted slightly) as I’ve never done that yet. Any other good ideas? 2.0 VW diesel - vac pump siezed on end of cam - rinsed gears between inlet and exhaust cams - bent valves or timing out - even thou cambelt is on and timed up. Been there several times before - glowplugs out and compression test. If you do a current draw test on starter motor - you will an even reading of something - because one cam will still be closing the valves! You will still get peaks and they will be even. |
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Post by chippie on May 22, 2022 22:02:03 GMT 1
Would I be correcting saying that if the cam timing was out due to rinsed gears ( gear teeth stripped?) this would show up on live data as a mis correlation between crank and cam timing ?
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Post by remmington on May 22, 2022 22:05:05 GMT 1
Would I be correcting saying that if the cam timing was out due to rinsed gears ( gear teeth stripped?) this would show up on live data as a mis correlation between crank and cam timing ? No this is the odd thing about these engines - the crank has a sensor - the back cam has a sensor. The crank and back cam are joined with a belt. The front cam has no sensor. If the gears are chewed up between front and back cam - the ECU still gets good signals from back cam and crank - but the intake valves don't shut to make compression - the 20bar you need! |
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Post by chippie on May 22, 2022 22:26:57 GMT 1
Thanks for the heads up Remmi…..
Well that’s a surprise!…..what a shit design, no cam sensor on the inlet…..( time to read the EA288 training manual again…)
So it’s a toss up between removing the glows and checking for pressures or removing cams cover and checking gear teeth…..which one needs least amount of work? As I don’t have a compression tester, I’d be doing the latter….
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Post by givusaclue on May 22, 2022 23:26:55 GMT 1
Would I be correcting saying that if the cam timing was out due to rinsed gears ( gear teeth stripped?) this would show up on live data as a mis correlation between crank and cam timing ? No this is the odd thing about these engines - the crank has a sensor - the back cam has a sensor. The crank and back cam are joined with a belt. The front cam has no sensor. If the gears are chewed up between front and back cam - the ECU still gets good signals from back cam and crank - but the intake valves don't shut to make compression - the 20bar you need! Didn’t know they were linked with a belt, all the ones we’ve stripped have been meshed gears at the back end |
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Post by givusaclue on May 22, 2022 23:37:15 GMT 1
Well that's odd for a start. What scan tool are you using?
1) have a light/warning but no codes 2) why flash and "overheat" light at 90C ? Check it's not a substituted value by looking at it in OBD2.
Outside of that can you see the rpm on live data/tacho?
Oh and remmington has a neat trick, stick a small compass next to the injectors, it will go wild if they are actuating. Might have to raid the xmas crackers !
It’s definitely odd, I’ve used vcds, autel ms908s pro & topdon phoenix pro so far, the biggest problem with vcds is there are so many pids to scroll through you’ve nearly lost the will to live by the time you’ve got to the end of the list |
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Post by chippie on May 23, 2022 6:12:17 GMT 1
No this is the odd thing about these engines - the crank has a sensor - the back cam has a sensor. The crank and back cam are joined with a belt. The front cam has no sensor. If the gears are chewed up between front and back cam - the ECU still gets good signals from back cam and crank - but the intake valves don't shut to make compression - the 20bar you need! Didn’t know they were linked with a belt, all the ones we’ve stripped have been meshed gears at the back end I’m probably stating something you already know….. The cams are contained in a carrier sitting atop the cyl head. The back end has the gears that drive from the exh cam to the inlet cam. The exh cam is driven by the toothed belt wrapped around the crank and inj pump. As the exh cam has the cam sensor associated with it, you would think that all is well if the crank/cam phasing was checked and found ok…That was the trap I fell into when I wrote above…🙂 |
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Post by remmington on May 23, 2022 6:39:02 GMT 1
No this is the odd thing about these engines - the crank has a sensor - the back cam has a sensor. The crank and back cam are joined with a belt. The front cam has no sensor. If the gears are chewed up between front and back cam - the ECU still gets good signals from back cam and crank - but the intake valves don't shut to make compression - the 20bar you need! Didn’t know they were linked with a belt, all the ones we’ve stripped have been meshed gears at the back end Correct - offside of car has cambelt from (crank to cam) - nearside (gearbox end) in upper rocker cover has gears (gears as you say from front to rear cam) I got a VW Crafter in the yard that has done the same thing - vac pump seized and these gears chewed up. Towed in from another garage - had new injectors and a used ECU on it. Now the chap has spent so much money on it - he is hesitent to have head removed now. |
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Post by chippie on May 23, 2022 11:57:18 GMT 1
I'm guessing we are talking about the earlier VAG diesel engine that is not of the EA288 family, which is a totally different beast....The oil pump and vac pump on these is combined and driven by an aux belt off the crankshaft...if the belt breaks, bye bye engine....
Also the cams on these engines dont operate in the usual manner of inlet/exh....the 2 cams drive inlet and exhaust valves on a cylinder basis...but there's still the gear drive at the flywheel end and a Hall sensor for crank/cam timing...
I have a tech doc on these engines in pdf format if anyone is interested?
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Post by givusaclue on May 23, 2022 16:59:03 GMT 1
Didn’t know they were linked with a belt, all the ones we’ve stripped have been meshed gears at the back end Correct - offside of car has cambelt from (crank to cam) - nearside (gearbox end) in upper rocker cover has gears (gears as you say from front to rear cam) I got a VW Crafter in the yard that has done the same thing - vac pump seized and these gears chewed up. Towed in from another garage - had new injectors and a used ECU on it. Now the chap has spent so much money on it - he is hesitent to have head removed now. my experiences of these are that the ones i've seen don't bend valves, just break the rockers, price of the cams if you can get them is silly though, we have fitted a couple of brand new exchange head assemblies from a place in cornwall i think there's a special tool to set the cams which i don't have so never done it |
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