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Post by develin on Jun 5, 2021 10:21:18 GMT 1
Hey all it's been quite a while, hope everyone has been well  I've got my dad's 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 2.5 TD (M52 VM Motori lump) and the key fob has died of death which is a shame because now the immobiliser won't allow the engine to start. Id like to IMMO off the ecu and I was hoping somebody could do this for me or point me toward someone who can! I've tried my local lads but no takers... Thanks all  |
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Post by remmington on Jun 5, 2021 16:05:37 GMT 1
shop.carlabimmo.com/en_US/c/Jeep/27Solution above... €19.90 plus shipping Oh a Jeep with a VM engine - seperate cylinder heads for each cylinder (evil)... I once did an oil leak on one of these - it never ended! LDV vans had this horrible engine in them - so did Range Rovers.
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Post by valhalla on Jun 5, 2021 22:35:02 GMT 1
I don't think that it is possible to bypass this - if your car is a genuine import, then it may have an aftermarket system from a company in Basingstoke that is nigh-on impossible to get around.
The only chance you stand is to treat the car as if it is another vehicle with that same engine, and get an ECU from that same clone.
Remmington might have more of an idea about this than me (I don't get a lot of Jeeps/Chryslers in my neck of the woods these days...) but I have sent Cherokee's to the scrappies for just this sort of problem. It all depends on how Jeep sourced the ECU for your engine - if it is an off-the-shelf solution from Bosch directly, it might be OK, but I have a bad feeling about this.....
The issues stem from the need to get "Thatcham compliance" on vehicles on-sale around 1997 onwards, and in their wisdom to do this, Jeep simply added an aftermarket imobilizer at the port-of-entry, which is unique to the UK market. Many manufacturers based in the UK were able to code their own units (lots of Electronics Engineers with the skill-set) and they would follow the Bosch protocols to enable solutions that they all (more or less) supported afterwards as part of their factory-spec for the model series. Jeep stopped supporting this sort of system after a handful of years, and that was that.
Bosch ECU's are not easy to get out of a "IMOB" state back to a "virgin" state - the EPROM is just that, a write-once chip that needs to be physically exchanged for a "virgin" chip, in order that the ECU will release the engine state to a "START" condition. Once this system sees an imobi signal from any external unit over the imobiliser serial-bus pin/s, that is basically it, locked together till death do them part. The exchange involves taking a new chip and soldering it down onto the ECU motherboard.
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Post by remmington on Jun 6, 2021 4:26:59 GMT 1
I have done one 1999 onwards Jeep (a 2001 model from memory) with the "Julie Pro Clixe" solution above. But this is as Valhalla states an early 1997 one - maybe even Jeep will be able to help you now. You might be lucky - you need to get the numbers off the main engine ECU and contact Carlabimmo - these people are very good at selling you stuff. But if you ask too many questions - they try to sell you this. shop.carlabimmo.com/en_US/c/Software/53@ €399 a year. ------------------------------------- I hate using these "Julie Pro" solutions on VAG cars - as they plug into the DL16 plug. They do work ok - they are a cheap solution - you just needed to unplug them and replug them ofter a battery change. But if you have the car back in for a running fault - you have lost the option for live data as the plug is blocked by the emulator. The software is about 1100 solutions for opening ECU's and overcoming IMMO's - I have seen a copy of it and it is good. I also know a chap who specialises in Fiat 500's he has the Julie Pro €1499 Fiat bypass tool - it is unreal how good this is - I have borrowed it and used it on a 2017 Fiat Grand Punto. It will also work on a load of other makes fitted with Delphi BCM units (Iveco all models, Ford KA models, Some new Jeeps and some Alfa's). |
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Post by develin on Jun 6, 2021 8:37:50 GMT 1
Thanks for the replies all! I wish it was one of the Bosch EDC but sadly its a motorola ECU which I'm not familiar with and the inside of it is covered in gel (presumably for moisture protection?) so accessing the eeprom would be messy and possibly destructive... I did hear that because of the skim that you cannot simply replace any one part of the system other than if you fit a virginised ecu... I did try main dealer but they don't keep any information for chrysler stuff because apparently that would have involved a more expensive buy out to have the information when the company changed hands as they often do - as it stands today jeep told me they don't stock parts for anything older than 10 years and they don't actively retain information either... So I guess once they update their system they don't keep the older vehicles information on there As for the immobiliser unit itself, I believe it is the May and Scofield unit as Valhalla said this was fitted to imports to the UK market for insurance reasons... Well I tried them too and they said the same thing, its too old now and there was one chap left who worked there who had fitted loads of them but there wasn't much help he could offer me because as some may know, all the wires from the immo unit are black and the tags get pulled after install for obvious reasons. It has a mechanical pump so with a starter button I can start the engine for 5 seconds then it shuts off. Runs strong, and then I assume, perhaps wrongly that the ASD relay kicks in and shuts off the car... There is also some circuitry going to the pump itself but I have no clue what it does, in fact, without any technical data or wiring diagrams I don't really know much of anything for sure... I even bought a Haynes manual for goodness sake! 😂 Anyway I uncovered a different module which I actually believe to be the main ecu thay controls the immo unit, the one I pulled before it hink is the bcm 🤔 I'll keep you posted about how I get on with Carlabimmo Thanks gents  |
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Post by Joepublic on Jun 6, 2021 14:30:18 GMT 1
Thanks for the replies all! I wish it was one of the Bosch EDC but sadly its a motorola ECU which I'm not familiar with and the inside of it is covered in gel (presumably for moisture protection?) so accessing the eeprom would be messy and possibly destructive... I did hear that because of the skim that you cannot simply replace any one part of the system other than if you fit a virginised ecu... I did try main dealer but they don't keep any information for chrysler stuff because apparently that would have involved a more expensive buy out to have the information when the company changed hands as they often do - as it stands today jeep told me they don't stock parts for anything older than 10 years and they don't actively retain information either... So I guess once they update their system they don't keep the older vehicles information on there As for the immobiliser unit itself, I believe it is the May and Scofield unit as Valhalla said this was fitted to imports to the UK market for insurance reasons... Well I tried them too and they said the same thing, its too old now and there was one chap left who worked there who had fitted loads of them but there wasn't much help he could offer me because as some may know, all the wires from the immo unit are black and the tags get pulled after install for obvious reasons. It has a mechanical pump so with a starter button I can start the engine for 5 seconds then it shuts off. Runs strong, and then I assume, perhaps wrongly that the ASD relay kicks in and shuts off the car... There is also some circuitry going to the pump itself but I have no clue what it does, in fact, without any technical data or wiring diagrams I don't really know much of anything for sure... I even bought a Haynes manual for goodness sake! 😂 Anyway I uncovered a different module which I actually believe to be the main ecu thay controls the immo unit, the one I pulled before it hink is the bcm 🤔 I'll keep you posted about how I get on with Carlabimmo Thanks gents Any owners club? Some bloke with a beard, deer stalker listening to sitar music is working on one as I type.... |
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Post by givusaclue on Jun 6, 2021 23:48:52 GMT 1
I have a immobiliser type scanner (Autel im608) that lists the grand Cherokee & Laredo (separately) 1999 onwards, it can do the remotes etc. Can you post a pic of the key fob remote?
where in the Uk are you?
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Post by develin on Jun 7, 2021 7:55:28 GMT 1
I figured I’d better take the photo first thing while my fingernails are still clean lol That’s the key/fob combo as requested As for where I am based - I think that’s part of the problem! I live in Northern Ireland but I do go frequently to England (all over England) for work which is why I was hoping for a bench solution with the ecu. There are only 3 locksmiths within 50 miles of me but none would even come to look at it - something along of the lines of crush it and buy your dad a landcruiser!😂  |
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Post by givusaclue on Jun 7, 2021 13:08:38 GMT 1
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Post by develin on Jul 20, 2021 14:06:31 GMT 1
Just figured I’d update this thread in case some other poor soul ends up with one of these too
I have added a manual starter button and a 12v feed to the stop solenoid on the Bosch pump
Same story as before - runs for five four seconds beautifully then shuts off. Just as Valhalla was saying before these are pretty tough to beat… not heard anything from back from Carlabimmo yet but then I’m their defence I haven’t exactly been chasing for a call back either so when I eventually pull my finger out I’ll update again
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Post by rhyds on Jul 20, 2021 14:13:41 GMT 1
Just figured I’d update this thread in case some other poor soul ends up with one of these too I have added a manual starter button and a 12v feed to the stop solenoid on the Bosch pump Same story as before - runs for five four seconds beautifully then shuts off. Just as Valhalla was saying before these are pretty tough to beat… not heard anything from back from Carlabimmo yet but then I’m their defence I haven’t exactly been chasing for a call back either so when I eventually pull my finger out I’ll update again I'd be checking if there's a mechanical issue or if power to a fuel lift pump is being cut, as I can't see how an immobiliser could shut an engine off if you already have a 12v Permanent live run to the stop solenoid. |
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Post by valhalla on Jul 21, 2021 0:57:51 GMT 1
Just figured I’d update this thread in case some other poor soul ends up with one of these too I have added a manual starter button and a 12v feed to the stop solenoid on the Bosch pump Same story as before - runs for five four seconds beautifully then shuts off. Just as Valhalla was saying before these are pretty tough to beat… not heard anything from back from Carlabimmo yet but then I’m their defence I haven’t exactly been chasing for a call back either so when I eventually pull my finger out I’ll update again I'd be checking if there's a mechanical issue or if power to a fuel lift pump is being cut, as I can't see how an immobiliser could shut an engine off if you already have a 12v Permanent live run to the stop solenoid. The ECU shuts down the injection-pump quantity sleeve to stop the engine - the shutoff solenoid is simple a "belt & braces" approach to ensure that the engine can be stopped in an emergency if the quantity-sleeve sticks for any reason.
This applies for many of the pump OEM's around the time this Jeep was made, and is derived from a Bosch industry-standard. Safety-first, or something like that......
Even if this Jeep pump was not imobilized (I suspect that it is, in-fact, imobilized), the engine would shut-down on the implausibility of the stop-solenoid operation; the ECU often runs a diagnostic routine at/near start, where the stop solenoid is flicked off, then on again, and if the engine speed does not respond, a full-blown engine shut-down is performed on the control-sleeve.
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Post by rhyds on Jul 21, 2021 8:07:21 GMT 1
Well that's me told!
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Post by givusaclue on Jul 21, 2021 21:02:58 GMT 1
Just figured I’d update this thread in case some other poor soul ends up with one of these too I have added a manual starter button and a 12v feed to the stop solenoid on the Bosch pump Same story as before - runs for five four seconds beautifully then shuts off. Just as Valhalla was saying before these are pretty tough to beat… not heard anything from back from Carlabimmo yet but then I’m their defence I haven’t exactly been chasing for a call back either so when I eventually pull my finger out I’ll update again I'd be checking if there's a mechanical issue or if power to a fuel lift pump is being cut, as I can't see how an immobiliser could shut an engine off if you already have a 12v Permanent live run to the stop solenoid. Did you contact autotronics about getting your remote fixed? I think it was about £30 that would negate your immobiliser problems |
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Post by upkeep on Aug 4, 2021 11:49:17 GMT 1
shop.carlabimmo.com/en_US/c/Jeep/27Solution above... €19.90 plus shipping Oh a Jeep with a VM engine - seperate cylinder heads for each cylinder (evil)... I once did an oil leak on one of these - it never ended! LDV vans had this horrible engine in them - so did Range Rovers. VM Diesel, Did the course on those when they were being fitted in the SD1, Boat engine |
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