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Post by rhyds on Jan 28, 2020 16:49:17 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51273872This is an absolutely astonishing state off affairs. Unlike in GB all NI MOTs are carried out at 15 government run test centres across the province, and it seems all are being closed due to what seems to be fatigue cracking of vehicle lifts. NI MOT centres use automated testing lanes with shaker plates, and it seems the lifts haven't been able to take the strain and they haven't been inspected properly. It also seems that cars will now be issued with "MOT exemption certificates" (not something I've heard of in GB) which effectively extends your current MOT. Unfortunately cars that are three years old and due for a first MOT can't have one (as there's no current MOT to extend) and taxi inspections are also affected (different certification, same inspection lanes), so these tests are being squeezed in to the testing lanes used for trucks and buses (which I'm guessing are still manually tested). As for the NI MOT system more generally, I find it amazing that a population of 1.8 Million souls only have 15 MOT test centres. Bala, a small town of 2,000 has three MOT testing garages, which if you scale up means NI would have 2,700 centres for its population. From what I gather NI MOT stations are ruthlessly efficient at performing tests, however if there is a problem with the centres then a backlog soon forms.
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Post by chippie on Jan 28, 2020 17:27:54 GMT 1
Seems a bit drastic...
What did Mot stations use before the advent of the vehicle lift/hoist? Just think of the lost revenue and the cost of replacement hoists or repairs...
I know before the rolling road brake tester there was the old meter on the floor job..
My old MoT station had one and they actually used it to perform an MoT on one of my cars
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Post by rhyds on Jan 28, 2020 17:49:44 GMT 1
Seems a bit drastic... What did Mot stations use before the advent of the vehicle lift/hoist? Just think of the lost revenue and the cost of replacement hoists or repairs... I know before the rolling road brake tester there was the old meter on the floor job.. My old MoT station had one and they actually used it to perform an MoT on one of my cars The problem is that NI MOT stations are like sausage factories (as there's only 15 of them for a population of 1.8 million), and as far as I know MOTs have always involved the use of either a pit or a lift for underbody inspections. From what the article says they will be processing first MOTs (for 2017 cars) on the lifts they use for HGVs and buses while everyone else can apply for an extension (you can't extend the MOT for a 3yo car because its never had one). |
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Post by Joepublic on Jan 28, 2020 18:48:49 GMT 1
If there's a potential for someone not to return home to their loved ones its the right decision.
We had a contractor killed on site a fortnight ago, 23, what a waste of life....
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Post by chippie on Jan 28, 2020 19:35:56 GMT 1
If there's a potential for someone not to return home to their loved ones its the right decision. We had a contractor killed on site a fortnight ago, 23, what a waste of life.... Oh absolutely!! I'm all for Health and Safety at work for good reason... My point being that just because the lifts are out does this mean they have to pull the plug? Ok the alternative cited by rhyds was a pit, but I guess the stations may not have one ( surely there are some that do? ) |
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Post by rhyds on Jan 28, 2020 20:06:53 GMT 1
If there's a potential for someone not to return home to their loved ones its the right decision. We had a contractor killed on site a fortnight ago, 23, what a waste of life.... Oh absolutely!! I'm all for Health and Safety at work for good reason... My point being that just because the lifts are out does this mean they have to pull the plug? Ok the alternative cited by rhyds was a pit, but I guess the stations may not have one ( surely there are some that do? ) The NI test centres are, I'm guessing, like the VOSA centres here for HGVs and Buses. I doubt any have ever had an inspection pit built and even if they did I doubt they've got the method statements, risk assesments and insurances in place for them to be used |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 22:22:08 GMT 1
Nothing like having a back-up plan in place for when the sh1t hits the fan. Our mot scheme as example has a contingency system in place if say the computer systems fail and networks are down. As another example if we test a vehicle with a track width less than the ramp/platform width, we can test it on hard standing and use normal jacks to jack it. Maybe NI have not used common sense in their testing plans?
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Post by valhalla on Jan 29, 2020 1:07:31 GMT 1
Th problem here is that the test-lanes in NI have standardized onto one type of equipment. Elsewhere in the UK, there's a huge variety of equipment, so the chances of the whole system going down like this are minimised.
What should be worrying test centres in the rUK is whether they have an inspection regime that covers the stresses that shaker-plates are imposing upon the ramp plates and posts. If you are simulating the same sorts of conditions that smash cars up every day on the British roads, then you have to accept the same sorts of stresses are going to go back into the test equipment - it's just basic physics.
Maybe time to ban the use of shaker-plates? I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a blanket prohibition notice served on them; I hated the whole idea as soon as they were first mooted, as they are unfairly rough on heavier vehicles.
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Post by remmington on Jan 29, 2020 9:33:45 GMT 1
Th problem here is that the test-lanes in NI have standardized onto one type of equipment. Elsewhere in the UK, there's a huge variety of equipment, so the chances of the whole system going down like this are minimised. What should be worrying test centres in the rUK is whether they have an inspection regime that covers the stresses that shaker-plates are imposing upon the ramp plates and posts. If you are simulating the same sorts of conditions that smash cars up every day on the British roads, then you have to accept the same sorts of stresses are going to go back into the test equipment - it's just basic physics. Maybe time to ban the use of shaker-plates? I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a blanket prohibition notice served on them; I hated the whole idea as soon as they were first mooted, as they are unfairly rough on heavier vehicles.
Shaker plates are best used with a pit. (Maybe the age of the MOT inspection pit is not over - there have been a few new pits put in - at new MOT bays near us). Maha - the supplier of ramps to NI testing stations - are a good make. I think it is the volume of work they do is not helping - I think there is only 15 testing stations in NI (I could have got this wrong) It does raise the question? About the use of shaker plates on ramps in the UK? Personally - I like shaker plates and single operator testing lanes - but I have been wrong abut many things before  |
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Post by rhyds on Jan 29, 2020 10:56:41 GMT 1
Th problem here is that the test-lanes in NI have standardized onto one type of equipment. Elsewhere in the UK, there's a huge variety of equipment, so the chances of the whole system going down like this are minimised. What should be worrying test centres in the rUK is whether they have an inspection regime that covers the stresses that shaker-plates are imposing upon the ramp plates and posts. If you are simulating the same sorts of conditions that smash cars up every day on the British roads, then you have to accept the same sorts of stresses are going to go back into the test equipment - it's just basic physics. Maybe time to ban the use of shaker-plates? I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a blanket prohibition notice served on them; I hated the whole idea as soon as they were first mooted, as they are unfairly rough on heavier vehicles.
Shaker plates are best used with a pit. (Maybe the age of the MOT inspection pit is not over - there have been a few new pits put in - at new MOT bays near us). Maha - the supplier of ramps to NI testing stations - are a good make. I think it is the volume of work they do is not helping - I think there is only 15 testing stations in NI (I could have got this wrong) It does raise the question? About the use of shaker plates on ramps in the UK? Personally - I like shaker plates and single operator testing lanes - but I have been wrong abut many things before Yes, there are only 15 (government run) MOT stations in the whole of Northern Ireland, which has a population of almost two million (so imagine 15 test centres for somewhere with twice the population of Birmingham), and from what I understand they smash through tests a fair old rate (more than any UK test centres I'd imagine) As for Valhalla's point regarding standardised equipment across all bays, this strikes me as a strange and unheard of concept of a government department actually managing to bulk buy kit (generally things aren't that joined up!) and it seems they have all failed in a similar fashion. There's also the question of how the political difficulties NI has seen over the last few years (the Stormont government only came back to work within the last few weeks after a few years of deadlock) have affected funding and planning for this kind of thing. |
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Post by valhalla on Jan 29, 2020 12:00:24 GMT 1
Agree with all the above; the sheer volume of tests going through these NI test lanes is astounding.
This has been their undoing, no question about that - I don't think that anyone would pour scorn on the makers of the ramps themselves - they are just not designed to cope with the new application of MoT equipment that has come about.
If the NI authorities are on-the-ball, they will need to get together with the ramp manufacturers and discuss how the ramps are being used. The whole concept of "fatigue resistance" is old-school to an automotive designer in body-engineering, but a ramp manufacturer may not have ever had to consider this sort of thing, given the typical uses a ramp has had to cope-with in the past. That all changes if you have;
a) very high duty-cycle of use of ramps b) high-amplitude vibrations being imparted through those ramps at the same time
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 12:55:39 GMT 1
I agree with valhalla with regards the shaker-plates, as far back as 1996 I remember talking to a VE when he pointed out that he also did not like the use of those plates, he went on to say that he thought the load applied was too significant and was causing more damage than good. I have no experience with them, in fact I have only ever seen them in use on a VOSA video, and to be fair I did not like the quality of operation of them, they appeared too mechanical in operation for me were I was thinking I'd of like them to have been a bit more fluid in operation. (That last sentence might come across reading wrong to some people, but I understand what I am trying to point out). |
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Post by rhyds on Jan 29, 2020 15:00:37 GMT 1
I agree with valhalla with regards the shaker-plates, as far back as 1996 I remember talking to a VE when he pointed out that he also did not like the use of those plates, he went on to say that he thought the load applied was too significant and was causing more damage than good. I have no experience with them, in fact I have only ever seen them in use on a VOSA video, and to be fair I did not like the quality of operation of them, they appeared too mechanical in operation for me were I was thinking I'd of like them to have been a bit more fluid in operation. (That last sentence might come across reading wrong to some people, but I understand what I am trying to point out). I think I get what you're getting at. You're worried the shakers are like a heavy metal drummer, just hammering rather than having some finesse about them? |
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Post by studabear on Jan 29, 2020 19:47:12 GMT 1
I love the shaker plates lol
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Post by Rhubarb on Jan 29, 2020 20:12:56 GMT 1
I agree with valhalla with regards the shaker-plates, as far back as 1996 I remember talking to a VE when he pointed out that he also did not like the use of those plates, he went on to say that he thought the load applied was too significant and was causing more damage than good. I have no experience with them, in fact I have only ever seen them in use on a VOSA video, and to be fair I did not like the quality of operation of them, they appeared too mechanical in operation for me were I was thinking I'd of like them to have been a bit more fluid in operation. (That last sentence might come across reading wrong to some people, but I understand what I am trying to point out). 1996? I thought it was around 2005 ATL came in? |
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