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Post by joel16 on Jul 29, 2017 14:23:22 GMT 1
HI, I'm a student performing research that requires me to find out if electric windows will work when submerged in water. If they will work, for how long and will it depend on the kind of wiring the car has? I would really appreciate any information about this.
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Post by remmington on Jul 29, 2017 19:39:52 GMT 1
Good question!
A bit of background please?
1. How old are you?
2. Which country do you reside in?
Sensible questions?
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Post by Noberator on Jul 29, 2017 21:02:11 GMT 1
I thought there would have been a flood of answers.  May be it's a School/College project.  |
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Post by valhalla on Jul 29, 2017 23:29:28 GMT 1
From an electrical point of view, you would need to know whether this applies to a scenario in salt-water, or whether this is only to be studied in fresh-water. Any electrical system is only as good as the power distribution, so before you can study electric windows, you need to study the different types of battery, battery venting, and battery terminals. Then you need to look at the methods of attaching the main battery cables to the rest of the car; do they go straight to the fusebox, or are they via a "smart disconnect" system? The different types of electric windows will operate in different ways underwater, and will depend on the cleanliness of the water. Most cable systems can be jammed quite easily by grit and debris in the cable guides. The length of time that the window will operate is 45seconds. That's how long most humans can hold their breath at shallow depths. Windows rarely operate automatically, unless they are on the tailgate on something like a Freelander1, in which case the power would need to have been interrupted for the glass to drop. If it is a VW Passat B5 under the microscope, then 5mins is the top-end figure, as that is the mean time between failures on these cars..... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 1:06:12 GMT 1
HI, I'm a student performing research that requires me to find out if electric windows will work when submerged in water. If they will work, for how long and will it depend on the kind of wiring the car has? I would really appreciate any information about this. Nothing better than doing the experiment and recording all data from your research. Buy a secondhand door complete, strip it down and service it to ensure the door is fully operational, then submerge the door into a tank of water along with the electrics and operating switch, power supply and operate until it fails, recording the event, then you will have first hand experience how long it will take to fail in service. When it has failed you can then examine all component parts and find the weak link that caused the window system to fail. My advise, do the practical research and put your own journal together from it. |
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Post by remmington on Jul 30, 2017 6:50:25 GMT 1
I thought there would have been a flood of answers. May be it's a School/College project. I did actually think it was a very good question? My initial thoughts on the subject is: Q. How long would a electric window system work underwater? A. Not long! But to escape a car, you only need to open a window a small amount to let some water in to equalise the pressure to open the door to aid escape. |
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Post by joel16 on Jul 30, 2017 11:57:23 GMT 1
Good question! A bit of background please? 1. How old are you? 2. Which country do you reside in? Sensible questions? I'm 16 and I live in Ireland. The research is for the BT Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition 2018. |
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Post by joel16 on Jul 30, 2017 12:04:13 GMT 1
From an electrical point of view, you would need to know whether this applies to a scenario in salt-water, or whether this is only to be studied in fresh-water. Any electrical system is only as good as the power distribution, so before you can study electric windows, you need to study the different types of battery, battery venting, and battery terminals. Then you need to look at the methods of attaching the main battery cables to the rest of the car; do they go straight to the fusebox, or are they via a "smart disconnect" system? The different types of electric windows will operate in different ways underwater, and will depend on the cleanliness of the water. Most cable systems can be jammed quite easily by grit and debris in the cable guides. The length of time that the window will operate is 45seconds. That's how long most humans can hold their breath at shallow depths. Windows rarely operate automatically, unless they are on the tailgate on something like a Freelander1, in which case the power would need to have been interrupted for the glass to drop. If it is a VW Passat B5 under the microscope, then 5mins is the top-end figure, as that is the mean time between failures on these cars..... Thank you!  I'm generally applying this to a scenario in saltwater. |
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Post by joel16 on Jul 30, 2017 12:08:41 GMT 1
HI, I'm a student performing research that requires me to find out if electric windows will work when submerged in water. If they will work, for how long and will it depend on the kind of wiring the car has? I would really appreciate any information about this. Nothing better than doing the experiment and recording all data from your research. Buy a secondhand door complete, strip it down and service it to ensure the door is fully operational, then submerge the door into a tank of water along with the electrics and operating switch, power supply and operate until it fails, recording the event, then you will have first hand experience how long it will take to fail in service. When it has failed you can then examine all component parts and find the weak link that caused the window system to fail. My advise, do the practical research and put your own journal together from it. Thanks, great idea! |
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Post by Karl on Jul 30, 2017 12:49:57 GMT 1
Most would probably work longer than you could hold your breath I'd expect
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Post by Karl on Jul 30, 2017 13:00:13 GMT 1
Difficult situation to get out of. imagine being an rear passenger vehicle comes of road unexpectedly into lake/river/canal. Driver unconscious. it's gonna be tricky to get at ignition/starter button
If at all possible to get ignition on depending on type of crash/impact.
Think side and curtain airbags set of also.
Also depending on model could have rear doors isolated via the drivers master controls
Having individual door modules would also make a difference
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Post by Karl on Jul 30, 2017 13:05:06 GMT 1
it has been known on rare occasions for people to drown while accidentally rolling down the ferry slip way. And another whilst leaving the ferry, accidentally selecting reverse and going up and over the barrier
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Post by Karl on Jul 30, 2017 13:08:12 GMT 1
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Post by Karl on Jul 30, 2017 13:16:05 GMT 1
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Post by upkeep on Jul 31, 2017 7:41:45 GMT 1
So a pragmatic approach is needed as it would be impractical to submerge a whole vehicle to carry out the test and for any meaningful data you would have to carry out numerous tests on various different vehicles.
So second hand parts are out as you need to use new parts, impractical to submerge whole doors again the cost would be prohibitive. The easiest solution is to source new window lift motors from various manufacturers wire them into a test rig and let them go noting voltage and amp loads until failure or a time set by you.
What would be interesting would be if any the difference between OE and non OE parts.
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I'm generally applying this to a scenario in saltwater.
