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Post by Trevor on Feb 2, 2017 0:52:19 GMT 1
If i was u Damien i would, Plug it in to another scanner in order to confirm the codes or the lack of, Scope the 12v and 5 volt power supplies using the ecu ground supplies to the afm and your rail pressure sensor when the van is cold and during warm up until the fault is present,just to make sure every thing is ok with the wiring,and you could also see over a long period of time if there are any issues there,a scope is the only way to test these circuits properly,
Also try tapping the rps when the fault is there, these sensors give a bit of trouble in these,
I would scope the ecu power and ground supplies too,
You have the egr blocked off!
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 2, 2017 18:45:02 GMT 1
I ordered a scope yesterday should be here tomorrow.
As above I'm still not convinced the IAT isn't getting a dose of 12v now and again, I've replaced the plug and wiring to as tight to the ECU plug as I could get and I'm fairly sure it's still happening, The only way I am going to see it happen is with a scope.
I'm assuming you are looking at the spreadsheet for the EGR info? It doesn't seem to work until coolant reaches 50 degrees or so, it's already been out, cleaned and I swapped the solenoid with the one from my van as it's nearly new and my van isn't going anywhere ATM........
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 3, 2017 19:06:18 GMT 1
So back it came this morning, was an absolute pig yesterday according to the customer. Started off getting it warmed up and checking out the scope, everything seems to be behaving, no fault codes showing up this time. Started off scoping MAF and IAT, fault occured no change in readings, all seemed well. Removed Air filter housing to get better access to RPS and pressure regulator wiring. Spent rest of day between other jobs warming it up and trying to get issue to reoccur without any success. Refitted Air filter housing to move the van out of way for the night and fault occurred As it was the only physical change i removed filter housing and fault was still there, try as i might i couldn't avoid the fault! Why wasn't it like this all day!!!!!!!! As it was starting to get dark i noticed something, van starts and idles nicely, good fuel pressure - Engine note changed after a few seconds on idling, Interior light dimmed right down, fuel pressure and revs drop, wouldn't rev - Engine note changes goes back to a nice idle, lights come back bright, fuel pressure comes back nice and it revs. If you time it right, as soon as the lights start to dim you can kinda catch it on the throttle and it judders a little bit but does rev up and clear, you just have to be very quick on the throttle.
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Post by valhalla on Feb 4, 2017 0:41:28 GMT 1
What is the engine earth voltage doing whilst all of this is happening? Have you scoped this yet?
It might be worth correlating the alternator output whilst all of this is happening. It sounds like you either have a very dodgy ground somewhere major (i.e. the main strap from alternator casing back to the vehicle ground and/or battery) or a very dodgy earth on a main consumer like an intake manifold heater, which is causing the ground-return current to take the path of least resistance through your ECU sensor ground wires.
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 4, 2017 10:04:40 GMT 1
It's next on the list, but I couldn't get the fault to occur until I had packed up for the day. Will start the day with checking and cleaning all the earth connections, thinking about I remember this having a recon gearbox fitted shortly after it was bought, I wonder if the fault was present before then or if it coincides............
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 4, 2017 19:42:05 GMT 1
After speaking to the customer, this fault has been present since they have owned the van to one degree or another, but has been getting more noticeable/worse over the past couple of months.
Cleaned up the battery terminals and all the earth points i could find:
2 on cross member by battery tray 1 on rear of engine mounted on a plate where gearbox joins engine 2 on end of gearbox 1 other end of ribbon cable on end of gearbox 1 (2 wires) under ECU
Took it out for a drive, came back checked codes, nothing coming up.
Started up and refused to rev, wasn't prepared just trying to get it near the garage to hook up the scope etc, didn't happen again...........
Just wish it would just break and not work at all at least i'd have a starting point to work from!
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 5, 2017 12:35:06 GMT 1
Came home in this last night, as customer wants to collect this afternoon to load up for tomorrow. Took the opportunity and logged a load of data with vauxcom, upon arriving home a had a fault code present, relating to boost sensor input voltage high. Had a look at the log and can see where the fault code came from!! This is pretty much the first 5 seconds of starting the van, the high results cover about 3.5 seconds. It was a 10 minute drive and this didn't occur again and hasn't since. Its the first time for me that its occurred from cold.
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 17, 2017 19:17:33 GMT 1
Still going on with this one, checked over the wiring, scoped feeds, EGR wasn't right swapped it out and not had any issues since, been used for 9 days no fault codes have come back.
Still got the issue with the throttle, seems to be happening more recently since it's warmed up a bit, even doing it first thing in the morning now which it hasn't before. Looking at rail pressure it often seems a bit low when it won't response so started looking at that. Performed leak down test, 2 mins at idle:
1 45ml 2 50ml 3 35ml 4 40ml
Stopped at 2 mins as bottles only hold 50ml........
I'm little bit unsure as to what a good result is, most of the leak down tests I've done have shown a massive difference and something is clearly wrong, there seems to be a few different opinions on what's acceptable:
Less than 25ml/ minute Less than 10% deviation Highest result less than 3 times the lowest result (that comes from Vauxhall WSM)
It doesn't seem to be too excessive to me however I did notice quite a bit of air coming through on a couple of injectors and on closer inspection there's a few very small bubbles now and again in feed to pump and the primer bulb appears a bit damp around the bottom.
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Post by valhalla on Feb 17, 2017 21:47:01 GMT 1
Those results seem fine for the leak-rates. I would be surprised if you would be able to measure much longer than 2mins at idle on anything, with 50ml tubes.
The main thing as well is that they are fairly well balanced between cylinders.
You might have a problem with the low pressure bits and pieces around the primer, but if the damn thing is starting reliably in the morning, I'd get shot of it and tell the owner to take it somewhere else next time. These vans are nothing but trouble under the bonnet, and the sooner they are all scrapped, the better.
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 19, 2017 21:07:45 GMT 1
Those results seem fine for the leak-rates. I would be surprised if you would be able to measure much longer than 2mins at idle on anything, with 50ml tubes. Yeah, i'm not sure why they are so small but saying that all your really checking them relative to one another, so length or time isn't going to make much of a difference and its pretty clear when something is wrong. There is no problem with it starting, it always starts, but won't rev, so its kind of as good as a non runner for the owner,unless they are pointing downhill... admittedly there has only been a handful of occasions where it has taken longer than 10 mins to get it to start and work properly. The current agreement is, that there are a number of smaller jobs required here and there on the van, that will need doing soon but not immediately, so when i'm quiet it will come in (if available - they only currently use it Mondays and Thursdays) do a couple of the little jobs and have a look at the throttle issue. Bearing in mind i see the owner every morning at the school run and most people there know of the issues she has had with the van, it might be prudent for me to suck it up and see it through. Especially as its a pretty small village and bad words spread twice as quick as good ones! The main issue seems to be that it seems to like me, it comes in and regardless of how bad it has been for them it behaves quite well for me. I've suggested (based on the fact i have a spares van that is going nowhere for the time being) to start playing parts darts with the fuel system. I swapped the fuel solenoid and rail pressure sensor, results from live data seem much the same. There is definitely a small amount of air coming through the supply to the pump, which seems to get worse between warm starts (i guess the extra heat and the suction from LP pump could cause it to happen quicker on brief stops!?!?!) I have swapped the filter housing for another with a new filter in (no signs of metal or crap in the old one!), pipe from filter to HP pump, cleaned and checked the connectors onto filter and thoroughly wrapped the whole of the primer bulb and all the connections in tape, just to see what happens. It was faultless for me after that but the owner will let me know how they get on tomorrow.
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Post by damien4884 on Feb 21, 2017 17:29:10 GMT 1
This returned today. Shocked to say the issue appears to have gone away, at least for now, tape seems to be doing the job! They only did a couple of deliveries but no issues all day.
To celebrate the van decided to start grinding all the crud around front discs off with the pads (i had already advised they replaced all the discs and pads but the work was being put off in light of the running issue).
Fitted new front discs and pads, been collected with a nice invoice to pay, fingers crossed it gets through the week issue free then i can order in a new primer bulb/fuel line in from Renault.
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Post by onionterror on Apr 10, 2019 10:00:33 GMT 1
Hi There Damien!
I was just wondering if there had been any follow up on this issue? Im experiencing the exact same problem, non responsive throttle for a few seconds on startup, made worse by a warm engine/hot weather.
Was it simply a replacement and sealing up of all surfaces and hoses on the fuel lines to and from the fuel filter?
Regards
Rich
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Post by imnotamaster on Jan 12, 2020 16:58:44 GMT 1
Renault Master throttle problem! Long story short. Accelerator doesn't work when, (im guessing it's the MAP sensor, wire with plug on the airbox) Plugged in works ok when unplugged idle drops runs ruff and anything & will eventually die?! This is when cold. Back story. Van wouldn't start after being left couple of weeks (it's a horse box conversion). Battery went flat while daughter was tryin! Jump leads on, It was like it dint wanna fire up for want of an expression. Pumped up the squeeze thing b4 the fuel filter till hard. Looking like air in fuel in the clear pipes. Popped off at engine end. Plenty fuel. Too lazy to strip off everything to crack off pipe at fuel rail & injectors. Squirt in the easy start & fires up & runs bit very lump, Like running on 1 / 2 cylinders! Stripped off air cleaner & a top plastic cover thing with clips on. Cracked off pipe into fuel rail, plenty fuel. Crack off g/box end injector, Plenty fuel. Tighten up & it starts up! Put it all Back together, test drive all ok. Turned off. Final check under bonnet, notice not clipped MAP plug on properly. Clipped on. In for lunch. Come out try it, accelerator not working! In doors for coffee break. Come out check still same. Unplug it, check pins & slots all looks ok. Plug in, wont start cos cant rev up. Unplug sensor to c if different & it blo*dy started up! Unplug while running, Idle drops & it wants to die! Push plug in position but not connected. Close bonnet, indoors for coffee, Pretend theres nothing wrong 🙃 But wot realistically does all this mean? Read through the above thread on loss of throttle & not much wiser 😞 HELP!!! Please 🤞🤗 Cheers. X
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Post by imnotamaster on Jan 12, 2020 17:01:40 GMT 1
Cant share video of problem 🙁 Soz X
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