Mondeo TdDi cut out during warm up....mr Benz?

[dbrierly]

recently bought a 51 plate TDDi (not TDcI) mondy which runs perfect apart fom it cuts out with glow plug light flashing during the warm up phase, about 1 in every 2/3 starts (with a cold engine)
If I key off and wait 10 secs, it restarts and runs fine the rest of the day. It never cuts out when starting the engine from already warm, and the actual start cycle is fine, even down to -5 on a really cold start. It always seems to happen after about 2-3 minutes of driving.
Just had a service, fuel filter replaced and crank sensor replaced just before I got it - as it keeps coming up with P0335 (CKP sensor) and P1665 (PCM comms) after each event. I understand P1665 is often triggered as a result of P0355.
Live data (from my super 2) shows CHT sensor increasing normally and no"abnormal" numbers.
My gut feeling is it may be a wiring issue related to the crank sensor, as opposed to the sensor itself - but it seems strange it happens at the same temperature point every time - and always at about 1500-1900rpm on constant throttle setting / light accel.
My question (before I take everything apart) is has anyone seen anything like this before - eg wiring chafing etc - and do hese have an electric boost heater?......It's almost as if something "trips" after 2 mins of running - eg the boost heater cutting in and spiking the ecu due to a bad earth. Or any high current wires running close to the CKp wires can distort the (weak) crank signal due to hall effect etc??
there is NO black smoke even on acceleration, turbo power seems fine, and its doing 48mpg based on 90% motorway 10% town - so i feel the big ticket stuff is all OK and this could be a wiring issue - but where to look. If it IS a crank sensor - or wire to it, it seems strange it only flips out at exactly the same point every time - as it should in theory be more random - hence why I'm wondering if there's anything that could trip it. havent taken out the "new "CKP sensor yet to see if filings on it - only as it's so buried...so hats the only bit I haven't checked.
Sorry for long post - but better to describe fully. Any ideas most welcome. Cheers in advance

[Karl]

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[Karl]

CMP sensor:
2.0L Duratorq-TDCi (Puma) Diesel 1 358 343 1

[Karl]

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[dbrierly]

Karl - many thx. its had a new crank sensor just before I bought it, .....but I suspect its an aftermaket one - hence interesting on the compatibility issue, and no guarantee its any good.

I'll get a grey ford one and update the post after xmas hols.. cheers again. all the best

[Karl]

But remember this is not a silver bullet fix

All the other usual suspects need checking out too


Ie injector spill rates,pump etc ..

[Karl]

Non oe sensors can be hit or miss

[Deleted]

Sounds like something is coming on and knocking the pump module out,
what starts working at that stage of warm up /engine cruise ?

[Monkey]

It a DI Karl so no CMP sensor

Dec 19, 2012 15:33:13 GMT 1 @mac57 said:

Sounds like something is coming on and knocking the pump module out,
what starts working at that stage of warm up /engine cruise ?

Theres a coolant heater fitted to NSR corner of front subframe, not known any cause any probs but then again theres loads of fords i dont see..

I think the CKP signal is going to need looking at while trying to replicate fault.. Maybe new sensor is not much good if aftermarket..

The fuel pumps are crap also, so that line of enquiry could be explored but they usually just give up.

[Karl]

Dec 19, 2012 17:29:08 GMT 1 Monkey said:

It a DI Karl so no CMP sensor

Dec 19, 2012 15:33:13 GMT 1 @mac57 said:

Sounds like something is coming on and knocking the pump module out,
what starts working at that stage of warm up /engine cruise ?

Theres a coolant heater fitted to NSR corner of front subframe, not known any cause any probs but then again theres loads of fords i dont see..

I think the CKP signal is going to need looking at while trying to replicate fault.. Maybe new sensor is not much good if aftermarket..

The fuel pumps are crap also, so that line of enquiry could be explored but they usually just give up.

Your right


I wonder if the dmf is rattling away

[dbrierly]

thx for all replies.

It's also had a new lift pump last year at 90K, and the dmf was replaced about 4 years ago - but not sure whether it had a SMF fitted as the replacement. However it's pretty smooth in terms of vibration. I hear the high pressure side is normally quite dependable on these (unlike common rail)....

I've got no fault codes relating to pumps or injector rates - its always the crank code 0335 that comes back every time after reset, along with 1665 (PCM comms) which seems to trip when you get 0335.
I think next move is to replace the sensor anyway with a Ford one and see what happens as I can then be sure I have a new OE sensor ....and hope it's that as opposed to a damaged flywheel ring gear etc.....
however because it only does it in warm up thats why I#m thinking it's a boost heater earth or something kicking in and sending a spike through the system which is temporarily kicking out the fragile CKp signal. (the boost heater is 750W so could in theory send a fair old spike if it has a dodgy earth?)
will have a look at that over the weekend - I understand you can only see the boost heater from underneath - so need to wait for the rain to stop.
thanks again.

[Deleted]

The crank sensor code can be logged when the pump loses communication for engine position , either the pump is losing a circuit or the pump is faulty, crank sensor on its own cause a pump communication fault code mmmmmmmmm

[dbrierly]

...hadn't thought of that - I might be getting 1665 first due to pump circuit issue, then triggers CKP code next. was fine today...as 10 degrees outside....interestingly the booster heater doesnt kick in at that ambient....so still hoping its some sort of connection issue when the BH kicks in....trouble is its 10 degrees purely because its now chucking it down....so can't get underneath yet...will be post xmas. thx and merry xmas all. will update as soon as I get the chance.

[dbrierly]

Ok, so its still doing it's tricks - and also cut out when "warm" after 10 miles on motorway - but interestingly it was -7 outside.
having thought of what mac said - pump circuit cutting out - then triggering crank code, i found out the electric boost heater shares the same circuit as the pump module. its not blowing the fuse, but there is a connector above the rack bellows going to the BH, that may be corroded - just cant get to it yet to confirm
if that's "spiking" or arcing when the boost heater cuts in (if CHT less than 71 and / or IAT below 5) - could this also be spiking the pump module as the BH is 750W --so 65A? it dawned on me that although engine was warm, it was -7 , so possible CHT wasnt that hot as was only doing 50 due to weather - hence not getting engine hot. hence BH cut in again and tripped it
am i talking "wishful b*llocks" - or does anyone think I could be on to something? - i will disconnect and tape up the heater wires to prevent current flowing (and the voltage spikes) - and even though it wont warm up as fast - my logic is if it doesnt cut out, then it would be this boost circuit frying the pump module voltage...and next place to look.

package is just sh*te though - cant belive connector is on top of rack bellows - so steering movement over time may have degraded wiring causing these issues?
cheers. too cold to go and play this weekend

[Deleted]

Heaters and glow relays should have direct battery feed through relays, Good luck i wouldnt know how to catch this reliably without a scope !