remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,974
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Post by remmington on Feb 27, 2023 19:09:50 GMT 1
As with all these things there usually is a reason for it, and for industry insiders that know a huge amount more than the public do as they (The Government) are now looking at tyre and brake particulate emissions.I have read about this - things that wear do emit debris and dust (if you add up this from every car/van/lorry on the UK's roads it would tons of stuff). |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 28, 2023 0:22:27 GMT 1
As with all these things there usually is a reason for it, and for industry insiders that know a huge amount more than the public do as they (The Government) are now looking at tyre and brake particulate emissions. Sadly, in my experience, The Government (aka. "The Blob") are unable to grasp the science and engineering behind so many things, so it would be silly for any commercial entity to dive-off in any one direction to chase some sort of future homologation - sounds like a recipe to go out of business, even if it is just in tyre-production.
An example of this, and one close to my heart (I tried to intervene in the legislative consultation at the time, around the end of the 90's) is the whole subject around how you define particulates in the first place. I could see that the EU bodies were all comfortable with the fact that particulates were going to come down hugely between EU1 and EU3, but didn't want to factor-in the particulate size (rather than just overall mass) into the legislation. In fact, I was told, quite literally, to "Shut the F*** up" before I rocked too many carts.
So we now have, retrospectively, a whole industry of turkeys producing "really clean cars, with better emissions than ever before", yet not a single one prepared to stick their head above the parapet and ask the all-important question, "Have we not just pushed the particulate size down to the point that we cannot measure it effectively?", and thus in the process produced exhaust gas streams that now have the sort of particulates that really kill, in a nasty sort of deep-lung way, rather than the good old-fashioned lumps that you could measure (and feel all pious about, if you were government) with the technology that was around you.
The "thinkers" in the industry have all been retired/pushed/ignored out of the way. Too many "awkward questions" with "awkward answers"......Like "Why do they fit Particulate Filters to gasoline cars these days?" Sadly, and this is very awkward for idiots in powerful positions (such as Khan), gasolines also push particulates out, it's just that they were always more subtle (smaller) about it, and Particulate filters are really good at cracking little lumps of particulate down to even smaller lumps of particulate, until your average emission laboratory cannot measure them any more. But you can make your clientele feel really pious about their new purchase, and city-dwellers can sleep better at night, knowing that EU6 emissions are "better for the planet, better for human health". Errrrrr, nooooo, they are likely worse for the latter.........
If tyres want to be "healthy" for humans, they need to carry-on producing big lumps that "look bad" but don't reach the parts that smaller PM's reach.
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remmington
Apprentice
Owns Spark Eroder
Posts: 4,974
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Post by remmington on Feb 28, 2023 7:53:41 GMT 1
As with all these things there usually is a reason for it, and for industry insiders that know a huge amount more than the public do as they (The Government) are now looking at tyre and brake particulate emissions. Sadly, in my experience, The Government (aka. "The Blob") are unable to grasp the science and engineering behind so many things, so it would be silly for any commercial entity to dive-off in any one direction to chase some sort of future homologation - sounds like a recipe to go out of business, even if it is just in tyre-production.
An example of this, and one close to my heart (I tried to intervene in the legislative consultation at the time, around the end of the 90's) is the whole subject around how you define particulates in the first place. I could see that the EU bodies were all comfortable with the fact that particulates were going to come down hugely between EU1 and EU3, but didn't want to factor-in the particulate size (rather than just overall mass) into the legislation. In fact, I was told, quite literally, to "Shut the F*** up" before I rocked too many carts. So we now have, retrospectively, a whole industry of turkeys producing "really clean cars, with better emissions than ever before", yet not a single one prepared to stick their head above the parapet and ask the all-important question, "Have we not just pushed the particulate size down to the point that we cannot measure it effectively?", and thus in the process produced exhaust gas streams that now have the sort of particulates that really kill, in a nasty sort of deep-lung way, rather than the good old-fashioned lumps that you could measure (and feel all pious about, if you were government) with the technology that was around you. The "thinkers" in the industry have all been retired/pushed/ignored out of the way. Too many "awkward questions" with "awkward answers"......Like "Why do they fit Particulate Filters to gasoline cars these days?" Sadly, and this is very awkward for idiots in powerful positions (such as Khan), gasolines also push particulates out, it's just that they were always more subtle (smaller) about it, and Particulate filters are really good at cracking little lumps of particulate down to even smaller lumps of particulate, until your average emission laboratory cannot measure them any more. But you can make your clientele feel really pious about their new purchase, and city-dwellers can sleep better at night, knowing that EU6 emissions are "better for the planet, better for human health". Errrrrr, nooooo, they are likely worse for the latter......... If tyres want to be "healthy" for humans, they need to carry-on producing big lumps that "look bad" but don't reach the parts that smaller PM's reach.
Oh.. The above reply interested me! Another issue nobody wants to acknowledge - is there are too many of us - consuming too much. The core problem is "population growth". Problem is: Thats not a vote winner either? |
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Post by Rhubarb on Feb 28, 2023 8:25:34 GMT 1
Blimey this had made my cogs whirr, even at this time of day  |
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Post by valhalla on Feb 28, 2023 23:54:57 GMT 1
Sounds like "brakes and tyres" investigations for Particulates is nothing to do with health and environment, however it has been dressed-up.
Newer cars, specifically BEV's, are dodging taxes and congestion charges too well, and what is on the cards is a new form of "pollution-tax" to replace the lost revenue from hydrocarbon-fuels, etc. etc., ad-nauseum.
Arup have been brought-in by the UK government as an outside consultancy to look into the feasibility of measuring (AKA taxing) PM's from tyres and brakes - but it's all been strongly denied that any of this is to do with fleecing motorists for just something else. So read into that what you like!
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