Ford Transit Panther 67 plate

[Deleted]

We were presented with a Ford Transit Panther today for its first mot. We only carryout class IV and I'm no expert when it comes to understanding all the requirements.

The Transit has two side sliding doors with smoked glass windows factory fitted. Three passenger seats are also fitted with a dividing wall to the rear. The GVW is 3145 kg which puts it into class 7 category, and its not obviously a 4 x 4. 

I took it that the Transit with 5 passenger seats fitted and windows in the side doors to mean that it is not a goods vehicle, but some type of dual purpose. I classed it as a heavy motor car and left it as a passenger carrying vehicle in the MTS brake results screen.

Did I do it correctly? 

[studabear]

Sounds like you did it correctly but without checking the manuals can't be 100%

[givusaclue]

Istr the criteria is:
Is there more room taken up for carrying passengers than load bay? If so it’s dual purpose class IV, or at least that’s what I was told a couple of years ago when I asked Swansea the same question on a transporter

[Deleted]

I had a look into the good book called the Guide and read through this section;


A2.2 Dual purpose vehicles


1. A ‘Dual purpose vehicle' is one that;


is constructed or adapted for the carriage of both passengers and goods or burden of

any description; and
has an unladen weight (ULW) not exceeding 2,040 kg; and

which either:


a. is so constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine, is, or by

the use of the appropriate controls can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the

vehicle; or


b. satisfies the following conditions as to construction:

(i) is permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;

(ii) the area to the rear of the driver's seat must:


• be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats

(fixed or folding) for two or more passengers, and those seats must

be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered

backrests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of

the vehicle; and


• be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass

or other transparent material having an aggregate area of not less

than 1,850 cm2 on each side and not less than 770 cm2 at the rear;


(iii) the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the

backrests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements

specified in the first paragraph of item (b) (ii) (or, if there is more than

one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the

steering wheel and the backrests of the rearmost such row) must,

when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one third of the

distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the

rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

If you read the highlighted sections above, initially it would appear that I made the correct decision to test it as a class IV and say that it is a dual purpose vehicle?

Was the van converted or did it leave the factory as such? It was a first test vehicle! 

The goods or burden section of the van, the rea-most section has a partition fitted, which also looks like it is factory fitted. The rear doors have no windows fitted and the partition also had no light allowed to pass through it. 

Technically I think that van is a class VII. 

[Joepublic]

So if you put lots of insulation on the back doors....

In the day of the bar code and internet I find this a f@ckin joke - especially if the van has a bulkhead

[Noberator]

Would this vehicle not be a Class 7 even based on the GVW quoted of 3145kgs?


I don't envy you NT's at all it must be a right PITA keeping up with regs and to me they are a minefield based on this one.

[Rhubarb]

What was the unladen weight? If it's less than 2040kgs then it's class 4. If it's over 2040kgs then it should be tested as a class 7.

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2020 14:36:32 GMT 1 Noberator said:

Would this vehicle not be a Class 7 even based on the GVW quoted of 3145kgs?


I don't envy you NT's at all it must be a right PITA keeping up with regs and to me they are a minefield based on this one.

It's not that straight forward. In the regulations it says up to 3000 kg is class 4, and 3001 to 3500 kg is class 7. The problem then starts because the manufactures started manufacturing vehicles that had 5 passenger seats fitted and told the government that they were passenger carrying vehicles. The reason for that was because taxation to the manufacturer was less than what they paid if it were a goods vehicle. 

The government had a problem on their hands because the manufacturer had found a way round the regulations, and the government couldn't easily change the regulations, so the government decided at the time (about 2009) to send out a special notice to advise the Testing Guide had been updated to reflect what testers had to do when testing these vehicles, hence what I wrote above. We've had more notifications from DVSA over the years telling us that updates are in the pipeline to change the regulations, but to date nothing has been updated. 

Sept 27, 2020 17:37:59 GMT 1 Rhubarb said:

What was the unladen weight? If it's less than 2040kgs then it's class 4. If it's over 2040kgs then it should be tested as a class 7.

I've never been able to find the unladen weight on any vehicle when I've looked for it, and as I now am told the manufactures don't put the unladen weight on vehicles.  

[remmington]

2040kgs unladen is the - goldern hurdle to do 60mph on A roads/70mph on dual carraige ways - vehicles need seats with enuf room round them and side/rear windows.

For testing 2999kg and under is Class 4 - over is Class 7.


"Dual purpose vehicles" come from the factory and so so "car dervided vans". You can't make them.

Crew van is just a light commercial with seats.

Temp rear seats don't need seatbelts and are only tested when they are fitted!




This is my understanding...

There is a lot banter and arguments about this subject.

[studabear]

Reading the example of the manual it sounds like it should have been tested as a class 7 as the transit isn't 4 wheel drive.

[Deleted]

It does not need to be a permanent 4 wheel drive, it can be 2 wheel drive as it puts an 'OR' in the wording, which goes on to say...

satisfies the following conditions for construction... 

[givusaclue]

i don't think you'll cop any grief for that one, but if you're still unsure ask your local area dvsa ve. it's their job to help as well by keeping standards uniform & to take the ambiguity out of regs like this so that a mere mortal is in with a chance of testing correctly without fear of reproach

[valhalla]

I have had my Defender 110 CSW Station Wagon tested as Class IV Dual Purpose Vehicle for years now - but I had a real argument a couple of decades back with one station that insisted it had to go through a Class VII.

The 2040kg unladen weight just happens to be the mass of a 110 Defender, and it is very close to the Disco 1 weight as well. I'm pretty sure this set of regulations was written around Landrover requirements through MoT stations, if my memory serves me correctly at the time.

[Rhubarb]

Supervag: I think you've made an error. If you can't see the unladen weight on the plate then you work from the gross vehicle weight, which as presented was over the weight for a class 4, so you shouldn't have tested it.

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2020 23:36:12 GMT 1 Rhubarb said:

Supervag: I think you've made an error. If you can't see the unladen weight on the plate then you work from the gross vehicle weight, which as presented was over the weight for a class 4, so you shouldn't have tested it.

I 100% agree with you now on that one single event, however, what would you do with a Ford Transit GVW 3145 kg presented to you with 5 seats fitted, side windows and rear windows fitted?