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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 17:04:35 GMT 1
While sat in the drivers seat using regulation [2.2.A.1,b] the regulation says;
A. Free Play
1. With the road wheels on the ground pointing straight ahead, lightly turn the steering wheel left and right as far as possible without moving the road wheel.
Check the amount of free play at the circumference of the steering wheel.
Note: Play due to wear or maladjustment must not be confused with apparent play due to the construction of the mechanism, such as caused by the deflection of flexible joints or spring compression in external power steering systems.
Note: The steering wheel free play limit is a general rule for standard diameter steering wheels, (380mm).
Lower or higher limits should be set with larger or smaller diameter steering wheels.
1. A point on the rim of the steering wheel moves, without the road wheels moving, for more than:
a. 75mm for non rack and pinion
b. 13mm for rack and pinion steering.
This vehicle has a rack and pinion system fitted and I measured at the steering wheel circumference 25 mm, so I failed it, was I correct because the owner is complaining.
I contacted a Mercedes specialist and he was unsure?
Any thoughts!
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Post by valhalla on Mar 8, 2018 21:43:50 GMT 1
Guardian, by the letter of the regs, you're correct to fail, but the only doubt in my mind would be;
By deflecting the steering wheel in each direction, does it return back to the same place, or within a band of 13mm to the same place? If so, then the play is elastic, and your fail might not be correct, otherwise you are absolutely correct to pick this one up. A vehicle like an ML cannot be running around with free play in a steering rack or associated column joints, and it's too easy to dismiss this sort of thing when you're doing safety checks.
I'm fairly strict on Landrover steering boxes for pre-MoTs. These might be "allowed" 3inches of play at the wheel, but every time my suspicions have been raised, I've found a U/J that's about to let-go (rust streaking from the joints, etc.)
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Post by givusaclue on Mar 8, 2018 21:50:11 GMT 1
tough one
if you feel it's excessive & can demonstrate how you measured it with reference to the manual then fine, fail it.
as you've already failed it you can either stick to your guns or ask to have another look at it after having consulted a specialist. either way you've probably lost the customer long term & you'll never be able to please everyone no matter how hard you try.
as an mot tester you are often considered the devil incarnate by those that usually can't afford to run or maintain their vehicle properly
not really any help (you could ring your local dvsa examiner & ask hypothetically?)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 10:56:11 GMT 1
valhalla the steering free play felt directly at the steering wheel is clearly "loose", when turned leftwards and rightwards, there are no "such things as free play caused by the deflection of flexible joints or spring compression " in this steering mechanism. I can't see the column UJ's due to covers fitted. I believe I am correct to fail this vehicle and the vehicle is now back for repairs and retest, lets see now what happens! Thanks for your replies
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 19:20:55 GMT 1
Update; Mercedes advised me the other day that they have never encountered problems with these steering mechanisms on the ML's ever?  My boss went to Mercedes today and that is what they told him, he then rang me from their dealership and told me what they were saying, politely I said to my boss, tell them to stop talking rubbish from the "office stair" and get into the damn ML and visually check it and measure the damn steering free play at the steering wheel, the boss replied, OK. The customer arrives at our place today advising me that nobody has picked up on this fault I have highlighted and that she and her husband have owned this vehicle for years, politely I said to her, sorry I'm having none of it, see the logo on my works uniform yes, then please go online and talk to the experts who have approved me, I am an industry trained and approved vehicle engineer with over 30 years training and service under my belt, I don't wish to sound off with you but there are too damn many people now in the trade sat behind a computer who don't know the difference between a steering and wheel and a road wheel. The ML arrives back at our place, Mercedes no wiser, a proper visual inspection now of the full steering column is completed by me and what is it that I find wrong? The steering column UJ is hanging off. A side note
Some time back we had a customer booked in for an mot test, his car was a Lexus, sorry can't remember the exact model, however I wanted to complete a PRS for headlamp aim but I could not access/find the adjuster for the Side - to - Side headlamp aim settings, the customer was present at the time and he advised that it was not a problem because his next call was at the Lexus dealership, so he advised he would get them to set it up. Within an hour to say an hour and a half the customer is back advising that Lexus have adjusted the headlamps, I put the car back in the Test Bay and set the beam tester to the car and behold what did I find!!!! The headlamp had not been touched. I pointed this out to the customer who was not very happy advising that he had just paid £50 to Lexus for the headlamp aim service. The customer rang Lexus from our place and the management put the technician on the phone who had set the headlamps? I spoke with him and asked him had he set these headlamps to which he replied yes, so naturally I just asked him the "basic question", where are the headlamp adjusters!! The reply came back, please hold the line a moment while I just go and have a look on the Microfish? Really I said! You have just admitted you set these headlamps up and I only tested the car two hours ago, how could you have forgotten where these adjusters are so quickly? I get the feeling that many people don't actually do adjustments/repairs anymore, it seems easier to just tell the customer the job has been done and take their money! |
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Post by valhalla on Mar 9, 2018 22:52:15 GMT 1
Well done on this one Guardian. You earned your test fee (and some) when you picked that steering problem up. I don't have to do MoTs myself, but I do prepare cars for MoTs, and it's painful to drill through the skulls of some (thicko) customers that something is wrong, when they have had it creep-up gradually on them over several months.
You've probably saved their lives, and those in the little C1 or Ka that they would have ploughed-through when the U/J failed properly.
The bigger the car, the bigger the responsibility. If people had to drive these things with no PAS, no brake servo, no assistance of any kind - they'd be a lot more understanding of the carnage they can cause.
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Post by studabear on Mar 9, 2018 23:35:17 GMT 1
God, mots what a pain.
Only today a chap dropped off a 06 Clio, told assistant manager its a good car, should be alright.
Both track rod ends hanging off
Badly worn lower ball joint
Washers inop
Uneven brake application front
Uneven brake application rear (Offside rear drum sounded like its contents were rolling around inside
The worst condition brake discs I can recall seeing in the last few years
Both front brakes binding
Both outer CV boots detached
Low headlamp aim on Offside
He then proceeded to blame his wife, tbf the assistant manager actually said regular maintenance would have picked up on a lot of this.
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Post by Noberator on Mar 10, 2018 0:21:53 GMT 1
Guardian show the Mercedes customer this link.  It's relevant because of safety.  I've also read the driver of the Land Rover Discovery only bought the 4x4 off-road vehicle only a month ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 17:50:22 GMT 1
My condolences to the family of that young girl, a life and some generations lost there for the future. The customer at our place is long gone now and listening to her through the explanations of the repair details only suggested she was interested in getting the pass certificate, my experience over time has shown that the mentality of some people would and do drive constantly with some quite serious vehicle defects from one year to the next using any and every excuse they can dream up, like the one above, "My wife is the fault" of the defective braking system, when it comes across like that you tend to think it's a blame game passing the book and the guy is an idiot, but actually they could be strapped for cash and the wife actually controls the income and expenditure, and she very well might of made that decision to not spend money on the car, and not understanding the importance of road safety areas of the car makes the decisions taken even worse for the general public and other motorists.
Just imagine the carnage on the roads if and when 4-2-2 gets through the door to the streets?
and the office boys and girls will say...
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oli
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Post by oli on Mar 10, 2018 20:15:35 GMT 1
Don't worry, they'll soon be grumbling about you when a completely untestable item eventually gives up through lack of maintenance. "It only had an MOT eleven and a half months ago!"
Such is the world we live in!
That's a good spot though, so well done on keeping the rest of us safe.
Oli
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Post by valhalla on Mar 10, 2018 22:53:01 GMT 1
God, mots what a pain. Only today a chap dropped off a 06 Clio, told assistant manager its a good car, should be alright. Both track rod ends hanging off Badly worn lower ball joint Washers inop Uneven brake application front Uneven brake application rear (Offside rear drum sounded like its contents were rolling around inside The worst condition brake discs I can recall seeing in the last few years Both front brakes binding Both outer CV boots detached Low headlamp aim on Offside He then proceeded to blame his wife, tbf the assistant manager actually said regular maintenance would have picked up on a lot of this. Did you pass it then?  |
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Post by valhalla on Mar 10, 2018 23:03:58 GMT 1
Guardian show the Mercedes customer this link. It's relevant because of safety. I've also read the driver of the Land Rover Discovery only bought the 4x4 off-road vehicle only a month ago. Pretty shocking that link Noberator. That's exactly the point here. An adult, let alone a poor little girl, would stand no chance against a loose wheel bouncing down the road at them. From the photo, those are not even standard wheels either, gauging from the projection out the wheelarch profiles, so someone has got it wrong badly there. I hate these sorts of vehicles, because they are also a pain in the posterior to work-on, as well as being a lottery on the sort of thinking that has gone into the "modifications". |
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Post by Noberator on Mar 11, 2018 0:19:48 GMT 1
Guardian show the Mercedes customer this link. It's relevant because of safety. I've also read the driver of the Land Rover Discovery only bought the 4x4 off-road vehicle only a month ago. Pretty shocking that link Noberator. That's exactly the point here. An adult, let alone a poor little girl, would stand no chance against a loose wheel bouncing down the road at them. From the photo, those are not even standard wheels either, gauging from the projection out the wheelarch profiles, so someone has got it wrong badly there. I hate these sorts of vehicles, because they are also a pain in the posterior to work-on, as well as being a lottery on the sort of thinking that has gone into the "modifications". It looks to me like the vehicle has 20" wheels and it's been modified for off the road use.  |
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Post by valhalla on Mar 11, 2018 1:04:17 GMT 1
It might appear that it has been "jollied-up" for the odd excursion off-road. Which is fine if you are doing 5mph.
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Post by givusaclue on Mar 11, 2018 21:56:23 GMT 1
that's about 20 miles from me, there's loads of discos & landys pimped like that around here on the edge of the wolds
absolutely dreadful for the family
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