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Post by valhalla on Oct 2, 2015 16:39:53 GMT 1
I've had a strange problem come in today. Vectra C estate with two new strut assemblies from Sachs. Both assemblies were fitted about 4-5weeks ago, new components throughout except the strut gaiter and rebound stop, which were reused from the previous struts. Symptom was that the car was bouncinjg around a bit. When I looked at the front struts with the car on the floor, it was clear that they had failed, to slightly different extents. With the car in the air, both struts have leaked some/most of their damper oil from the oil seal to the inner strut rod, into the spring pan, and down the outside of the strut assembly onto the driveshafts.
Has anyone seen this before? I would not have thought there would be any problems with Sachs as an aftermarket unit? I believe, but would have to confirm, that these came through ECP.
Is there anything that should have been done to prime the strut, beyond compressing and allowing it to expand again a few times whilst upright before assembling the spring and top bearing. etc.?
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Post by upkeep on Oct 2, 2015 19:10:11 GMT 1
Are they genuine Sachs? is the question?
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rpm
Apprentice
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Post by rpm on Oct 2, 2015 19:23:24 GMT 1
Are they genuine Sachs? is the question? I would ask the same question. Dodgy components or dodgy supplier or both ? |
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Post by valhalla on Oct 2, 2015 20:02:49 GMT 1
Hmmm....
I had the same question from my wife this evening, when I told her about this job. She used to be in the auto industry herself at one time.
TBH, they did not come across as being the genuine item when I opened the box, not when I compared them to the original components on the car, which were also branded Sachs. One big giveaway was that I had to modify the support bracket for the brake hydraulic line on each side, as there was no way that the clip was going to fit. I didn't source these, so I cannot say exactly where they have come from. If they had come through any of my usual routes, I wouldn't have hesitated in sending them back. Maybe Sachs themselves would be interested to know about these?
What I was trying to find out was whether there was anything that could have been done to improve the chances on these; minor details on fitment that are commonly required to ensure they don't fail in early life.....
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rpm
Apprentice
Posts: 1,504
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Post by rpm on Oct 2, 2015 20:38:35 GMT 1
Hmmm.... I had the same question from my wife this evening, when I told her about this job. She used to be in the auto industry herself at one time. TBH, they did not come across as being the genuine item when I opened the box, not when I compared them to the original components on the car, which were also branded Sachs. One big giveaway was that I had to modify the support bracket for the brake hydraulic line on each side, as there was no way that the clip was going to fit. I didn't source these, so I cannot say exactly where they have come from. If they had come through any of my usual routes, I wouldn't have hesitated in sending them back. Maybe Sachs themselves would be interested to know about these? What I was trying to find out was whether there was anything that could have been done to improve the chances on these; minor details on fitment that are commonly required to ensure they don't fail in early life..... I think you are supposed to prime any shock absorber by extending it fully and compressing it fully twice, but realistcally we all fit shocks and never do that ? No way is a cycle of compressions before fitting going to stop it from leaking once it is fited. You have fitted shocks before valhalla, dont have self doubts  |
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Post by valhalla on Oct 2, 2015 22:56:38 GMT 1
I'm worried about the Focus brakes I did yesterday, now....  |
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Post by Rhubarb on Oct 3, 2015 9:50:07 GMT 1
More shoddy crap from Eurocrapparts!
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Post by valhalla on Oct 3, 2015 10:41:24 GMT 1
Well, they're definitely from ECP. Sounds like they weren't too helpful on the phone, speaking with the vehicle owner this morning. So they are definitely going to come off again next week, as ramp-space allows, and possibly imobilise the car for a while. At least with them dismantled and on the ground, they can be photographed and/or sent off to Trading Standards for the West London area. I think the customer is going to file for compensation, which if it is filed in Scotland, will have to be dealt with in Scotland. This is his only car, and we only have one bus per day......
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Post by chippie on Oct 3, 2015 11:09:22 GMT 1
Well, they're definitely from ECP. Sounds like they weren't too helpful on the phone, speaking with the vehicle owner this morning. So they are definitely going to come off again next week, as ramp-space allows, and possibly imobilise the car for a while. At least with them dismantled and on the ground, they can be photographed and/or sent off to Trading Standards for the West London area. I think the customer is going to file for compensation, which if it is filed in Scotland, will have to be dealt with in Scotland. This is his only car, and we only have one bus per day...... Maybe there's a need for a taxi service?  |
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Post by rhyds on Oct 3, 2015 14:10:04 GMT 1
Well, they're definitely from ECP. Sounds like they weren't too helpful on the phone, speaking with the vehicle owner this morning. So they are definitely going to come off again next week, as ramp-space allows, and possibly imobilise the car for a while. At least with them dismantled and on the ground, they can be photographed and/or sent off to Trading Standards for the West London area. I think the customer is going to file for compensation, which if it is filed in Scotland, will have to be dealt with in Scotland. This is his only car, and we only have one bus per day...... Maybe there's a need for a taxi service? One of the local councils in North Wales actually worked out that it was cheaper to set up a subsidised account with a local taxi firm than to subsidise a timtabled bus. |
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magnus
New Member
Been here a while
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Post by magnus on Oct 3, 2015 17:39:32 GMT 1
Because it's usually the premium brands that get counterfeited most,I sometimes think it's worth buying the cheaper brands these days !
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Post by valhalla on Oct 6, 2015 22:47:38 GMT 1
Well, they're due to come back off again tomorrow, assuming my head cold improves a little. I also have some new genuine Sachs dampers on the shelf for the rear of my Volvo, which sport the proper holographic label, so I ought to be able to get a decent photo of the Vectra "suspect" unit labels and the Volvo "known good" labels side-by-side.
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Post by valhalla on Oct 7, 2015 23:27:49 GMT 1
So now the plot thickens further; if I hadn't fitted these just 6weeks ago, I'd have said an idiot and/or an amateur had done the job!
Got the struts off, lots of oil has escaped from the damper seals, damping rates are minimal as a result. They appear to be the genuine article, but the Sachs holographic logo is not the one that I have on my "known good" Volvo units. Neither photographs very well, so I'll describe the Vectra struts has having a hologram that depicts a "world" symbol, whereas the Volvo struts have a "three strut designs" sort of hologram, that changes from one design to another as the viewing direction alters.
The cause of failure would appear to be mechanical damage to the strut damper rods. Near the top of the rods, close to the strut bearing fixture, is a score-mark that is quite deep; it is almost too deep to be feasible in a hardened hydraulic rod with chromium plating. The scores appear to be similar, but not the same, and run circumference-wise around the rod for a few millimetres. They are just low enough down the rod that they cross through the seal when the coil spring is fully compressed (effectively coil-bound and with the bump-rubber fairly compressed), hence I think these have caused the problem.
What I cannot work out is how the hell these damper rods have got these marks....I certainly haven't got the equipment to make them. If they were made with a clamp or pliers, it was some terrific load that did it, or the rods are soft, and the coils would have had to be compressed right down to get such a tool over the top of the spring/compressor-pan. Then there is the fact that the protective gaiter on the top spring seat almost completely obscures these by several inches (the gaiter was carried-over from the original strut, so maybe someone fitted them to an assembly without the "curtain" in the way?).
I'm gutted because (partly due to a blown flourscent tube that has only been repaired two weeks ago) I didn't see or feel any of this when I put these together on the bench on one side of the 'shop. Fortunately the customer appreciates that I wouldn't use anything other than a proper socket and a T50 securing-bit through the middle to assemble the strut (the socket is not the proper 21mm one, but is an old impact socket that the locking-pliers can grip on to turn the nut). How they have ended-up here is an utter mystery.....maybe Sachs can throw some light on the case!
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Post by rhyds on Oct 8, 2015 8:28:37 GMT 1
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Post by valhalla on Oct 8, 2015 22:38:08 GMT 1
Similar 'ish, but I think it might have centred on Europe/Africa. The name "Sachs" was also embedded in the design (and was holographic).
The link shows how easy it would be to get these made, though.......
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