Problems with 1985 Manta 2L

[dooroy]

A friend of mine has a 1985 Opel Manta with the 2L fuel injected engine (LE-Jetronic I think ).
He only uses it occasionally - goes to shows , club days etc. The car is well maintained , garaged at all times.
On its last outing it began to run poorly (first missing , then cutting out etc ) on thee way to the show.
It then failed completely and had to be trailered home .
It will start and run for a second or two - and having read up the manual I think it runs on the fuel from the enrichment device but the the injectors don't seem to trigger at all.
Disconnect the enrichment device and it won't make any attempt to start.
He fitted a new fuel pump and filter but no difference ; ignition side of things seem fine ; connections ,piping, wiring etc has been checked ;
There doesn't seem to be much info available due I suppose to the age of the car - so we're not sure what to try next or how the system is meant to operate .
I offered to post on here in the hope that someone could offer some advice or helpful websites etc .
Thanks .

[spannermonkey]

Think i may have a haynes manual kicking about will check when home,i defo have one for the old cavvy sri and they were jetronic and monotronic or something like that so may help.

[Deleted]

I used to know all about these years ago Coolant temp sensor went on mine, it would run from cold for a few mins and then flood. Fuel pump went, again it would run for a while until the pump warmed up and then cut out but it would blow the fuse also. Injector pump relays used to play up. Not a lot on them was there? No crank sensor? Airflow meters used to wear out as well and it also has a temp sensor in the inlet. I've got the manual some where. What about dodgy fuel if it's been in there a while.

A lot of the Vauxhall forums are dead these days :

www.autobahnstormers.org.uk/

forums.mantaclub.org/

And the hose between airflow meter and inlet used to split

[lincspoacher]

One from my era. Check the green wire at the ignition coil if I remember correctly this supplies a trigger / impulse to trigger the injectors. Also check all the fuses as the old ceramic type fuses and fuse boxes can give trouble as they age. If you get really stuck I think I have my old course notes somewhere for this system, which may help.

[Deleted]

If its getting an ignition signal to ecu try for a shorted injector/s test.

[dooroy]

Thanks for replies - will check out the suggestions re fuses , green wire etc and see how it goes.
Have Googled quite a bit but not much joy - lots of questions on trim , bodywork, suspension etc but nothing like this problem.
Had been to a few shows earlier this year so reckon fuel is OK.
He has had the car for years and this is the first time anything like this has happened - so I would say they are generally reliable so thats why info is scarce .
Will let you now how I get on .

[lincspoacher]

In their day the system fitted to these we're pretty bomb proof, apart from daft things like water in the ECU there is very little to go wrong, which as you say means a lack of info. The green wire if a remember correctly is a piggy back type arrangement from the coil from the trigger wire which originates from the electronic ignition module. You can have a ignition trigger, but the green wire can fail meaning no injector trigger. Even if the wire looks ok I would load test it, and probably make another temp one up just to rule it out.

[Deleted]

You might be better trying a search for bosch jetronic as they were fitted to a range of vehicles over its time ,there are various fixes for these aged systems ..........

[Noberator]

Jul 4, 2014 20:33:47 GMT 1 @mac57 said:

You might be better trying a search for bosch jetronic as they were fitted to a range of vehicles over its time ,there are various fixes for these aged systems ..........

Didn't these have an adjustment screw for AFM to alter for rich or lean running.

In for rich out for lean IIRC.

[dooroy]

The Manta is still a non runner - and having been checked over by an auto electrician and 2 guys who were supposed to know them ' inside out' it is now parked on a trailer at the rear of my house to see if I can have a bit more luck , with help from forum embers .
I have Googled a lot as advised above but have run into a few snags - and maybe someone here can help.
One problem is that this car (1985) appears to have a 'mix' of L Jetronic and LE Jetronic components :
* one article , and the Haynes manual , states clearly that the L Jetronic had a cold start valve - this car has ( suggesting L Jetronic system ); it says that the LE Jetronic didn't have a cold start valve as the injectors did the job
* but it also states that the L Jetronic had a relay combination ( 2 relays on the same fixing plate ) . On this car however it has only one relay with 9 wires - and I read in a few places that this was only used on the LE Jetronic system .
* I spent a while looking for resistors - which Haynes show on the L system . I then got more info which said the LE didn't have pre-injector resistances as the (yellow) injectors themselves had 13-16 ohms resistance while the grey injectors , used in the L system had only 3 ohms .
So far, in addition to the suggestions above , I have been able to check the following :
a) the fuel pump gets a live feed on cranking ;
b) the cold start valve gets a live feed on cranking ;
c) there is a good spark ;
So what seems to be missing is fuel - injectors aren't being fired .
I also tried another ECU which the owner had - in this case its referred to as a fuel supply control unit ( or something like that ) as it only controls the fuel supply.
The 'ECU' has 25 pins but only eleven are used .
Another important part of the system is the air flow meter - and while he has 3 more of those in the boot I haven't been able to get any definite information on how to check one of those. However it would appear the AFM has a part to play in firing the injectors.
The Haynes manual hasn't been much help - some wiring diagrams very hard to make out etc .
The car has been running fine for years - so the 'mix' of systems obviously not a problem.
Apologies for the long post - any help much appreciated.

[Rhubarb]

Aug 19, 2014 0:28:28 GMT 1 dooroy said:

The Manta is still a non runner - and having been checked over by an auto electrician and 2 guys who were supposed to know them ' inside out' it is now parked on a trailer at the rear of my house to see if I can have a bit more luck , with help from forum embers .
I have Googled a lot as advised above but have run into a few snags - and maybe someone here can help.
One problem is that this car (1985) appears to have a 'mix' of L Jetronic and LE Jetronic components :
* one article , and the Haynes manual , states clearly that the L Jetronic had a cold start valve - this car has ( suggesting L Jetronic system ); it says that the LE Jetronic didn't have a cold start valve as the injectors did the job
* but it also states that the L Jetronic had a relay combination ( 2 relays on the same fixing plate ) . On this car however it has only one relay with 9 wires - and I read in a few places that this was only used on the LE Jetronic system .
* I spent a while looking for resistors - which Haynes show on the L system . I then got more info which said the LE didn't have pre-injector resistances as the (yellow) injectors themselves had 13-16 ohms resistance while the grey injectors , used in the L system had only 3 ohms .
So far, in addition to the suggestions above , I have been able to check the following :
a) the fuel pump gets a live feed on cranking ;
b) the cold start valve gets a live feed on cranking ;
c) there is a good spark ;
So what seems to be missing is fuel - injectors aren't being fired .
I also tried another ECU which the owner had - in this case its referred to as a fuel supply control unit ( or something like that ) as it only controls the fuel supply.
The 'ECU' has 25 pins but only eleven are used .
Another important part of the system is the air flow meter - and while he has 3 more of those in the boot I haven't been able to get any definite information on how to check one of those. However it would appear the AFM has a part to play in firing the injectors.
The Haynes manual hasn't been much help - some wiring diagrams very hard to make out etc .
The car has been running fine for years - so the 'mix' of systems obviously not a problem.
Apologies for the long post - any help much appreciated.

Can you upload some photos of under the bonnet to refresh our memories please?

The last time I worked on an LE Jetronic was my Mums old E30 323i(1985) way back 1994!

Yes from memory the airflow meter was crucial...Sounds like an earth is missing to the injectors..

[upkeep]

Does the flap in the airflow meter move when cranking the engine?

[Noberator]

This is from a distant memory many years ago. Attached to the air intake housing of the fuel injection unit the outer insulation of this earth wire was holding it together making it appear intact.It wasn't it was broken IIRC. Also can't remember if these have a fuel pick up pipe in the tank which could be blocked?

[upkeep]

manuals.type4.org/ljet/

[lincspoacher]

The air flow meter has to function correctly for the system to work this I do remember from working on them, the distributor is also a major player though not in your case as you appear to be getting a signal. You are correct in that some of them were a mix match of the 2 types of injection system which was a Opel production line thing. I would check the wiring from air flow to ECU , load testing the wires. Then rig up a temp fuel supply. From memory you have to match the numbers on the ECU not just the pin outs to get the right one and for the car to fire. I will try and find my old dealer training course notes out for you I think there in a box in the loft.